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Thread: RTWP vs TB

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Sochi, Russia
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastar View Post
    While I agree with your second paragraph conclusion, I will still try to make it happen, no matter how hopeless it is ^^

    And Bg and NwN were fine games, but they suffer a lot from the adaptation of TB P&P to RTWP action rpg games. If i wanted to, say, make my iconic wizard build into NwN it would not work, because everything works differently. I would have to make a new wizard build. Probably one that focuses on blasting because control is not as efficient when your whole team and the other guys teams moves at the same time your animation effect goes off.
    I appreciate your determination, i really do, since the goal of the said determination is, as you think, more depth to the game. I agree and disagree at the same time.

    While the issues you pointed on are real, they work for enemies too. I can remember more times than i can actually count, when i turned Horror, Hold Person and Web type of mass CC spells from 6-man(e.g. all party) to 1 man disabler by controlling the character who was targeted by said spell. Sometimes i even managed(when Haste was on) to get close enough to enemies so they were affected too. So, yes, RTWP system closes some doors... but opens another. It's just a matter of preference.

  2. #12
    Community Manager Berserkerkitten's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
    Nottingham, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastar View Post
    Can you sum up the reasoning behind it because honestly that sounds short sighted considering the strong support for TB there is?

    I know you're a community manager and it must be annoying to see it pop up every time, but most of us didn't have access to those things and AFAIK they're not stored online so I can't listen to them.

    If they are stored online, can you link it please?
    Don't worry, it's perfectly fine to ask and I don't think you're being annoying at all. With that said, I don't think there is an official statement beyond, "We talked about it a lot and decided to go with real-time with pause". The decision was not made lightly, but that's just what it is. And has been since day one. It's been in the FAQ on Kickstarter, creative director Alexander Mishulin officially stated it in our AMA session, you could see the realtime combat during our stream - it's been stated very clearly from day one.
    So once again, you're welcome to discuss the benefits of a turn-based system over RTWP and share with members of the community why you would prefer it that way, but please understand that the decision has already been made, it's pretty much set in stone, combat happens in real-time. We're a small indie-studio, there are only so many resources, the team had to chose one option. They chose RTwP. Please don't shoot the messenger.

  3. #13
    Member Greygore's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    Holly Springs, NC
    Personally I'm glad they went with RTwP. I just don't enjoy TB as much. I was never able to really get into Divine Divinity or Tides of Numenera as much as I would have otherwise simply because they were TB. To each his own I guess.

  4. #14
    Having played BG, NWN and ToEE, I have to say I personally enjoyed more TB combat. But that is because I love strategy a lot (great fan of Civilization). That said, I can see why the RTwP, the game plays much more fluid and you do not require deep knowledge of the system. This last two reasons makes it better for most of the public and specially for casual gamers, which usually is were the money lays in the end for most videogames.

    Nevertheless BG and NWN played well. In the end these are RPGs trying to guide you through some story with some action included. I will not consider them strategy games, while ToEE, that is more an strategy game than a story based RPG.

    In the end, if advanced auto-pausing (with plenty of configuration) is delivered, we can have a half-decent strategy experience. Things will not work as we are used, but just perhaps more realistically. We will have to get better and find new strategies for our well-known game.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastar View Post
    Can you sum up the reasoning behind it because honestly that sounds short sighted considering the strong support for TB there is?
    Well, if the goal was to stay as true to the source as possible, the TB combat was, obviously, the way to go.
    I aslo believe that chess played with RTwP instead of TB, won't be chess anymore, as it will be closer to football than to the original game.

    While the provided links state the decision is already made, there is no reasoning given behind it. (I have not watched the stream though, maybe it's there.) And although I'm content with this decision and backed the game knowing full well about real-time combat, I still would like to speculate about the reasons.

    One can say it's in line with the Infinity Engine classics.
    But cynic in me says it's due to new generation of players just find TB games slow and boring.
    And devs naturally want to endorse playstyle preferable by majority of their target auditory.

    Just look how many people want to have an option to play the game without companions - effectively turning combat into non-stop diablo-style click-fest. POE is a good example, as it not only allowed such a playstyle, but even somewhat encouraged it via steam achievements.
    Last edited by Nortar; 08-11-2017 at 06:51 AM.

  6. #16
    Member Skull-ogk's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    Stellenbosch, South Africa
    As stated before, I would have preferred TB, but with the pausing I can probably still help the NPCs a bit. I simply dont like controlling a large group of characters at the same time. If they have decent AI (knowing not to run over all the traps to get to the enemy (I'm looking at you NWN, this went for the enemies as well) it could work well.

    KotOR has the pause after actions system IIRC, and it worked well. I took a while to get back into it everytime, but it worked.

    Side Note: I forgot ToEE existed! That was also done pretty well (combat wise)

  7. #17
    i intensely dislike RTWP, but it is what it is and hopefully it is done well enough that it doesn't matter

  8. #18
    Member Kamigoroshi's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    The only time when I actually like TB is on handheld consoles with small screen. Such as old Final Fantasy titles or Breath of Fire. But on PC? Clearly RTwP hands down! Heck, I even play Arcanum in Real Time because of my dislike of Turn Based combat in computer games. And that should say something.

    So, for me, Pathfinder: Kingmaker is actually so very interesting precisely *because* it features said combat style. It just has the right amount of action and tactical thinking thrown into it. TB on the other hand feels more like reliving the classical duels between European nobles, or staged actors in an opera for that matter.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mat's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    To me the system matters less than the execution. Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader's RTWP combat was terrible and detracted from what could have been otherwise a very good game. On the other hand, I'll take RTWP any day over the garbage turn-based combat of games like Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor. I lost 30 minutes of my life waiting for skeletons to cross the battlefield before I realized it wasn't worth my time.

    Edit - Overall, though, I agree with Kamigoroshi.
    Last edited by Mat; 08-11-2017 at 03:03 PM.

  10. #20
    I've enjoyed both Turn-based and RTwP. Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Advanced, were great, so was Disgaea (until I got sucked into the item world for days and lost all track of the story).

    But RTwP (and without pause) can be great too. I mean, the Diablo series are foundational as Real Time games that give you tons of abilities you can use. And Neverwinter Nights 2 and Tyranny handled the the genre well. I really can't heap enough praise on KotOR (another RTwP game), or the Mass Effect series, and who can forget Ice Wind Dale or Dragon Age: Origins?

    In the transition to a computer game, some things get changed about the system. Real Time with pause is a lot quicker, so I don't mind at all.

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