View Poll Results: Would you like to see Vivisectionist in Kingmaker?

9. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I agree with your points.

    5 55.56%
  • Yes, but I don't think your points do it justice.

    0 0%
  • No, I disagree withe your interpretation.

    0 0%
  • No, I just don't like Vivisectionist.

    3 33.33%
  • No, but because I like other archtypes more.

    1 11.11%
Results 1 to 3 of 3
  1. #1

    A Case for Vivisectionist for a Alchemist Archetype

    Hello Owlcat Games,

    First I would like to say I’m incredibly excited for one of my favorite modules and game systems is finally getting the RPG it deserves. Today I would like to start to make the case for Vivisectionist an Archtype for Alchemist. You can find the rules for it outlined here.

    I want to appeal to not only you but the community on why Vivisectionist is the best Alchemist archetype and why. So I will attempt to persuade using as many points as possible.

    First and easiest position to argue from is the flavor of the archetype. Alchemists are an analog to Artificers from Eberron, but go so much further it what ways it allows you to play. It allows you to focus on bombs making crazy cluster bolas or even gravity bombs in normal Pathfinder play. It allows you to use the Discovery system to make you feel like your character is inventing/learning the secrets of old to turn lead to gold. Then finally it has Mutagens where mechanically you can ‘wild shape’ without replacing stats. Now not only is this a perfect blueprint for what each Archetype can do for Alchemist, it also leads into the best point I can make. We have a number of pop culture icons that kind of exemplify these three facets, First lines up with the bombs focused alchemist, I will call him Dr. Strangelove or ‘Father of the Hydrogen Bomb’ he invents explosively violent mixtures and utilizes them to further his goals. Second is the discovery and potion base alchemist, I will call him Van Hohenheim as he chased god through the divine knowledge of things like the Philosopher’s Stone. Lastly we have the Vivisectionist alchemist or the pop culture icon of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the disturbed man given form through an experiment gone wrong.

    Mutagens are already flavorfully on point, but alone it’s not enough to portray our morbid scientist. Taking it past just simple explosives we will trade that in for an unhealthy obsession with the biological, the meat. It will manifest as forbidden lore on living things, not to heal, but for knowledge’s sake. This blasphemous knowledge and experimentation takes him down an even darker path. He turns into a horrible beast almost toying with his prey, preferring to get close to his subject and potentially subdue for terrible tests and tortures. His outward appearance once he uses a mutagen now reflects his inner evil. Monstrous in mind and curiosity will emerge in deep voids of anguish for those unlucky enough to cross him.

    While I don’t think that’s the ‘only’ way it should be played, it’s the iconic route I see the archetype going.

    Second is a number of things I will lump under the enigmatic ‘Mechanics’. First of which is how it focuses on a different aspect of Alchemist. As clearly laid out in the section prior, Alchemists have 3 big themes. First is bombs, second is the actual potion/device making, and last is the mutagens. This archetype drops the bombs for a more direct approach. Whether it is ranged weapons, melee weapons, or natural attacks it allows for a whole new way to play Alchemist. Switching the primary offence to something else. Turning them into a combat rogue. Second is it is relatively straightforward for implementing game wise. It just uses the rogue’s rules for sneak attacks, rogue talents, and some alternative formulas. Amounting in maybe a total 10 changes, easily achieved compared to implementation of a whole new class. Thirdly as I said before is it’s effectively a rogue trading the skills and talents for potions. A great substitute for if you want a different flavored combat rogue, meaning if you enjoy a team that synergizes with sneaky characters this fits easily and comfortably in.

    Lastly is the diversity of the play space. While I touched on this earlier these games are ALL about choice. From how your character looks, how they work, and how they act in the story. It’s about taking on a role you want and it offers a different choice for players. It’s not just normal alchemist with something's changed, it’s a whole new way to play. A new way to play for what amounts to a few changes. It also offers a kind of ‘prestige’ class for rogues or other sneak attack characters, it allows them to keep ‘progressing’ their sneak attack dice while picking up some other abilities as well. It is by far the best and most interesting 1st party published archetype for alchemist and I hope I’ve convinced you all of that.

    So I beseech you, Vivisectionist is a simple to implement, depth adding, and compelling archetype to add to King Maker, thank you for your time.


    Alchemists have 3 main modes of play being Bombs, Potions/Discoveries, and Mutagens. Vivisectionist expand the usability of Mutagens while sacrificing Bombs for an interesting Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde style character that would be easy to implement with the current planned rules for King Maker. Archetypes should not be ‘addons’ but change the way you approach the class almost like it is an entirely new class all together using mechanics from other classes. This way Archetypes can vastly expand the roster of potential classes for as little dev time as possible. This adds a compelling new way to play as well as options for even non-alchemist characters that want to utilize some existing mechanics they have like Sneak Attack.

    EDIT 1: Working on formatting.

    EDIT 2: If you enjoy this let me know, maybe I'll do another on some other archetypes.
    Last edited by Bill Nye The Bounty Guy; 07-17-2017 at 06:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Vivisectionist was already mentioned in the Archetypes update. The archetypes mentioned in that update are already slotted for inclusion from what I understand; so I guess you win? But, great argument anyway! I loved the picture of chief Ripnugget!

  3. #3
    I think i will multiclassing nok nok into a vivisectionist

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