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  1. #31
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    To Pathfinder: Rerolls once per day is probably the most difficult thing to implement in CRPG. Every time someone asks me for an example of mechanics that will be changed in adaptation – I usually mention rerolls first. While playing tabletop, you can just respond to a bad roll with “I reroll it,” in CRPG you will either need to switch some toggle on beforehand, or the game needs to ask whether you will reroll it every time you fail a saving throw. So that mechanic is extremely unwieldy in CRPG, and we are forced change it somehow in most instances we encounter it.

    So what? Instead of 1/day when requested there's an automatic 0.5% chance to reroll any roll that gets a 10 or lower on the die up to 5x per rest?

  2. #32
    Senior Member Pathfinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    To Pathfinder: Rerolls once per day is probably the most difficult thing to implement in CRPG. Every time someone asks me for an example of mechanics that will be changed in adaptation – I usually mention rerolls first. While playing tabletop, you can just respond to a bad roll with “I reroll it,” in CRPG you will either need to switch some toggle on beforehand, or the game needs to ask whether you will reroll it every time you fail a saving throw. So that mechanic is extremely unwieldy in CRPG, and we are forced change it somehow in most instances we encounter it.
    Oh, no no no THAT would be way OP and lead players to rest way too often. What I mean and what we use is 1 for every level up. So IF you use it you lose it. You get one more when you level up, not every day. AND max amount of them what you can "store" is what you had in start +1. So "melee" (I guess paladin, fighter, barbarian, ranger, monk and are there more?) charachers would have between 0-3 and other (I guess magus, rogue, priest, wizard, sorcerer and are there others?) 0-2.

    In "classic" time there was around 3 type of main build: fighter, spellcaster (attack or defend/heal) and rogue. Fighter was "melee" others were not. So based on that we have to decide what is "melee" and what not.

    So IF you play (in P&P) let's say once a week and it take 8 weeks to get level up you have 8 play time to use that one (or two) hero points. In computer game I guess it would mean that in your example (once per day) some players would adventure then use that one hero point and rest for a day. In my example they would need to keep playing (and maybe dying) untill they level up, then they would get one hero point more BUT only one over orginal max.

    Meaning: even if you are level 20 demigod hero and have not used even single one hero points during game you have max 3 (or 2) of them stored. But if you had used all of them in your level 19 you would now have max 1.

    Edit: not 100% sure how to code that in the game but I guess it would be something like: every time you get level up there is a check if you have start +1 amount of hero points stored, if there are you get nothing if less you get 1 more. Allso I guess it would need option to pause every time you get effected by something (after all you can even try to resist healing and if you happen to be somekind of undead that is a good thing) but I guess that is in the game anyway? (So other companions / your main character might be able to react things what happen to someone in your party / something one of your party member sense)

    Edit 2: I guess in theory you might use it allso when level up to get max amount of hit points (if you have maximum amount of heropoints stored that would make sense).

    And now when we talk from it, how will it be in this game? Can we see level 3 barbarian with only 3 hitpoint (if his con is 11 or under)? I guess that is one thing what I think would make people save / reload and try to level up again and again. To get max hit points for they companions and they main character.

    In our game first 3 levels we get "automatic" 100% hitpoints (no roll) but after that you can either roll (for barbarian you get 1-12) or take 50% automatic without roll. (Yes another custom rule)
    Last edited by Pathfinder; 09-08-2017 at 08:37 AM.
    "Road to the man's heart go through the chest"

  3. #33
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    To Pathfinder: I meant those mechanics in general, there are a lot of them – feats give them on saves, rogue talents on skills, clerical luck domain gives them on everything and so on.

    Btw if I were giving reroll points – I would have given more to the rogue since some of his rolls are for the party and not for himself – he is not the only one interested in disabling this trap or unlocking the door, so it’s only fair to give him a bit more.

    In our current implementation, you just get max hitpoints, but that is not fixed in stone, just the current implementation of it. I am currently leaning towards giving you maximum at first level and then letting you take average rounded up (like it is in PFS) or making you roll, but with the random seed fixed for each character at the start of the game. For example, at the time you start the game, it becomes fixed that you will get 87% of your max HP gain on your second level, leading to 5 hp if you take a second level sorcerers and 11 hp at the barbarian. But there is no final decision here.

    To Stratagemini: We decide on a case by case basis. Giving someone a reroll is roughly equivalent to giving him +4 to the relevant stat for this roll, so that is mathematically similar. For example, Improved Iron Will gives you one reroll per day on will saves. Some examples of things that this mechanic can be remade into:
    1. Just a feat that gives a flat +2 to all will saves – stable and efficient
    2. A feat that gives you a reroll against first two failed will saves per day – leaves you without a choice, but with a better condition overall
    3. A feat that gives you a free action button that allows you to reroll will saves against conditions currently affecting you and ending those conditions if you pass the save. The active and good idea for gameplay and the one that emulates the action of the feat, but only against the will saves that are not instantaneous.
    4. A feat that lets you reroll all your failed will saves but with -3 on the second roll (mathematically similar to giving +2 to will, but is closer to the canon feat)
    5. A feat that gives you activatable once per day buff that lasts some duration and lets you reroll all your failed will saves during this stance. Bad fit for Improved Iron Will, but can be good for some class abilities that let you reroll more things (like luck domain). The current implementation of luck domain 8th level power, for example, allows you to switch on a lucky streak for 1 round per 2 cleric levels, and during that duration, you can reroll any roll you make. Switching it on and off is a free action.
    6. “Charged” re-rollable action. Again, bad for iron will example, but right for rogue talents. For example, a talent that gives you one reroll per day on disable device may instead give you three charges of disable device that makes two rolls and selects the best. And later you may press the button with this talent and then choose the door or chest, and instead of normal disable device you will roll two times and select the best.
    7. Toggle reroll action limited in the amount. Similar to the previous one, but you activate it with a toggle, and it automatically tracks and will try to do two rolls on first three such that you will do per day with this toggle switched on. That works okay with abilities that allow you to reroll attacks, for example. This way you switch it off during easy fights and then switch it on when it counts.
    8. Toggle conditional reroll – Second Chance feat can be an example of this. It can be made as a toggle that says “While it is switched on if you miss your first attack – you reroll it, but do not make any iterative attacks afterward”

  4. #34
    Member Nortar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    Btw if I were giving reroll points – I would have given more to the rogue since some of his rolls are for the party and not for himself – he is not the only one interested in disabling this trap or unlocking the door, so it’s only fair to give him a bit more.
    This is a slippery slope, if you consider all classes equal, but some - more equal then others.

    Fighter's attack rolls are for the party, she is not the the only one interested in killing that dragon, so it’s only fair to give her a bit more.

    Cleric's rolls are for the party, he is not the only one interested in healing those wounds or turning those zombies, so it’s only fair to give him a bit more.

    See what I did there?
    Last edited by Nortar; 09-08-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member HenriHakl's Avatar
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    It's been a couple of months - I figured I'd hear in to see if Perpetual Nothing has some new thoughts on combat maneuvers; has the Alpha and/or experiments or design made some new things happen? Where do maneuvers stand now? Where are they planning on going?

    Thanks! ^_^

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