Origins of Pathfinder: Kingmaker the CRPG

[MisterSlanky]

Listen to Yoda8myhead - he knows.

[Grifta]

So there's some kind of wiki fight?

I guess as long as we're not talking about d20pfsrd. That is a garbage pile of every random 3rd party rule ever thought up by anyone who knows how to publish a PDF to a website. Just stick with the PRD until you know how to figure out which entry is legit, and which is from randos, or from a random unbalanced companion that no one at Paizo ever reviewed.


For people who are interested in trying it out; there are also some free modules from Paizo. They're just 1-2 session adventures
Search for 'free'


There's also Pathfinder Society, which is the organized play for Pathfinder. Each scenario is just made for 1 self-contained session, so that you can just throw random people into the fire, and see what happens.
Free 3 part intro modules;
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

[Balancer]

What no shout out for the Archives of Neyths?

[Grifta]

That's fine, but it's a little overwhelming for new people. WAAAAAAY too many options from all of the companions, etc.

[No One of Consequence]

I guess as long as we're not talking about d20pfsrd. That is a garbage pile of every random 3rd party rule ever thought up by anyone who knows how to publish a PDF to a website. Just stick with the PRD until you know how to figure out which entry is legit, and which is from randos, or from a random unbalanced companion that no one at Paizo ever reviewed.

I don't know about you, but when I go on d20pfsrd, I can clearly see on the leftside panel what is core, what is added Paizo material and what is third party. It is quite complete and gives you the choice to have everything rulewise at mouse's reach.

[CountBuggula]

Note quite. The Paizo folks were busy developing Dungeon and Dragon magazine when suddenly WotC announced D&D 4E. While they were doing this under license, they could because of something known as the "Open Game License" or OGL developed by Ryan Dancy. This license basically allows you to use the rules wholesale (minus anything explicitly WotC property such as mind flayers or umber hulks) as long as you have about a half page long statement (you can find this statement in the cRPG under the "License" button).

After announcing D&D 4E, WotC did two things. First they cancelled Dungeon and Dragon magazine, which studdenly put Paizo in an interesting position. They had started Adventure Paths, but really were without a product. The subsequent announcement of the GSL (Game System License) as a replacement to the OGL (you have to forfeit your rights to the OGL if you agree to it) left Paizo in an even bigger conundrum.

That's when Jason Bulhman (lead developer at Paizo) came up to Lisa and said, "I have something for you to see". He had been developing a revision to 3.5 for years, and this was the opportunity for Paizo to continue making the game since the OGL (as long as you follow it) is in perpetuity. They came up with Pathfinder as a name (the actual little sheet with name options has been posted by Erik Mona and it's quite interesting) and they released to much fanfare after a year long beta test. This had absolutely nothing to do with "not liking where the rule set" went, but rather a simple financial need to keep the company afloat.

The rest is history.

While most of this is correct, I have a few revisions for your timeline. WotC closed down the magazines some time before the announcement of 4e, and Paizo subsequently established itself making quality Adventure Paths for 3.5, which is why the first four APs (not counting the APs they wrote for the previous magazines) are for 3.5 (although the first 2 were later re-released for the PFRPG).

But yes, they looked at both the GSL and the game system that is 4e and decided that they could not continue to tell the sorts of stories they wanted to tell within the framework of either, and decided to make their own game.

[Grifta]

@No One of Consequence: I agree that if you're familiar with the game, and that site, then it's easy to figure out the name of the book that contains the information. For a new player, like the OP, it's an extreme overload of information with no context. If you can't find an interesting class for your first ever Pathfinder game in the CRB, APG, or specifically campaign relevant books, then probably going to have a bad time.

[No One of Consequence]

@No One of Consequence: I agree that if you're familiar with the game, and that site, then it's easy to figure out the name of the book that contains the information. For a new player, like the OP, it's an extreme overload of information with no context. If you can't find an interesting class for your first ever Pathfinder game in the CRB, APG, or specifically campaign relevant books, then probably going to have a bad time.

I can accept this better than "That is a garbage pile of every random 3rd party rule ever thought up by anyone who knows how to publish a PDF to a website" which seemed way too harsh in my opinion.

In my opinion, Pathfinder and D&D 3.5 are not easy on new players anyway, because of the too many choices. Most new players should be guided by other players or a DM and stick to the Core races & classes at first, until they are more familiar with the mechanics of the game.

[Argantis]

...In my opinion, Pathfinder and D&D 3.5 are not easy on new players anyway, because of the too many choices. Most new players should be guided by other players or a DM and stick to the Core races & classes at first, until they are more familiar with the mechanics of the game.

I have been sticking to the core classes so far, no real issues there. I have had a couple of hiccups along the way with the more advanced classes on NPC's or my own characters. Fortunately I don't mind restarting over and over, especially since it is a beta.

I do think the developer would do well to put out a java based app that will run on browsers or mobile devices that is a character planner. Nothing really ever replaces that. I used to use one in DDO and I think the rules and character building are similar between the two games in their own sort of ways. The really tragic part of not having a character builder is that it is going to lose not only potential customers to sequel games but it also will cause new fans of the game system to not try table top if they get turned off on the CRPG.

If Paizo has any sense, they would collaborate here and use this as a marketing opportunity to gateway CRPG'ers into the PnP game. In fact, it would be well worth it for Paizo to build the character planners on their website and charge for access, however perhaps as a promo offer in the game the CRPGers of this game could get that access for free. Just a thought....

Edit: The DDO tool was not web based, it was something you installed to your PC, but web / mobile friendly java app is the way to go IMHO.

[Grifta]

I'm sticking with my "garbage pile" comment. I mean it's a nicely constructed and decently organized garbage pile, and I have nothing against the creators of the site, but it is just really a dumping ground for absolutely every home-brew rule that has been written down in a PDF.

It's like a PC game with an active modding community. The core game is polished and good, and then the quality of the mods is completely uncontrolled, so it ranges from amazingly good to absolute garbage. The lack of a rating system is this makes it impossible to tell the difference without play-testing it.