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  1. #51
    Member Donkey's Avatar
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    I'd like to see more animal companions.

  2. #52
    More NPCs that better represent the time-tested core classes, rather than the flakier hybrids. Really frustrated there's no Paladin (despite an obvious Paladin build determined to be a fighter) or decent Wizard that isnt behind a spell level the entire game because of a useless rogue level. Fringe hybrid classes might be ok for a player character or in a swing slot, but they dont replace those core specialists. I hate using custom mercs because they just feel like holes in my lineup with no personality.

  3. #53
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Noob View Post
    More NPCs that better represent the time-tested core classes, rather than the flakier hybrids. Really frustrated there's no Paladin (despite an obvious Paladin build determined to be a fighter) or decent Wizard that isnt behind a spell level the entire game because of a useless rogue level. Fringe hybrid classes might be ok for a player character or in a swing slot, but they dont replace those core specialists. I hate using custom mercs because they just feel like holes in my lineup with no personality.
    More companions, sure. With more specialized "classic" classes, why not ?
    But Octavia's rogue level is anything but useless. With the accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat, she can get into Arcane Trickster and "lose" only one level of casting, and she gets awesome with Sneak Attack, skills points at the cost of that level and some poor wizards scholl powers...

    The only bad thing about her is her specialization given the choice of spells in the game.

    Yes, Valery could use less Charisma and more Strength or Constitution, or even Dexterity. Especially more Strength to be able to carry both full plate and tower shield without being overloaded too quickly. But hey, she's got a very nice story behind those stats, so I don't mind that too much.

    But well, that said, to each their own way of playing, it's difficult to please everyone.

  4. #54
    Companions shouldn't have min-max'ed stats and class perfect builds. It makes them less characters? Story > stats is a good priority for a role playing game.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    More companions, sure. With more specialized "classic" classes, why not ?
    But Octavia's rogue level is anything but useless. With the accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat, she can get into Arcane Trickster and "lose" only one level of casting, and she gets awesome with Sneak Attack, skills points at the cost of that level and some poor wizards scholl powers...
    Because I dont need a "master of none" hybrid, I need a wizard. And whatever benefit that level of rogue provides pales in comparison to a wizard being behind a spell level the entire game. Just the jump in party power from getting access to third level spells is huge, and shell be behind in that
    all game in encounters that probably assumes the party has access to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    Yes, Valery could use less Charisma and more Strength or Constitution, or even Dexterity. Especially more Strength to be able to carry both full plate and tower shield without being overloaded too quickly. But hey, she's got a very nice story behind those stats, so I don't mind that too much.
    .
    No, fighters should have either a decent INT or a decent DEX to take advantage of the Fighters main selling point--the easy access to deep combat feats. Otherwise you're better off playing almost any other melee class. Cha does nothing for a fighter outside of nebulous "roleplay" reasons, that could just as easily be modeled with a bonus feat to persuasion checks.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    Companions shouldn't have min-max'ed stats and class perfect builds. It makes them less characters? Story > stats is a good priority for a role playing game.
    This old chestnut. I'm sorry, but if your concept of "character" requires them to be bad at their jobs, then your game probably sucks.

    Valerie has a high charisma to show how she's persuasive, right? Amounts to a +2 bonus on persuasion checks? So burn a feat (fighters get plenty) with a feat that models this instead, and give me access to the stats I need to get the feats that make fighters good.

    The writing in this game (or most cRPGs) is not nearly good enough that its worth using a deliberately shoddy ( im not talking about min maxing--Valerie is just bad) character. What use is your precious "character" building, when nobody wants to use her because of it? Ekundayo isn't min/maxed, but is a decently built character for his role.
    Last edited by Gelatinous Noob; 10-11-2018 at 12:09 AM.

  7. #57
    Its not about the persuasion check, its about story.
    And who doesn't want to use her? You? hardly everyone. hardly anyone.
    Your views aren't universal and you not thinking she's perfect doesn't make her bad at her job. Maybe it just makes you bad at the game if you haven't worked out how to use her. She has the stats for her build and to get the feats for her build.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    Its not about the persuasion check, its about story.
    And who doesn't want to use her? You? hardly everyone. hardly anyone.
    Never mind all the threads here and elsewhere about how crappy the NPCs are, right? Just me. Yup. Nice bubble you've got there.

    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    Your views aren't universal
    Right back at you.

    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    and you not thinking she's perfect doesn't make her bad at her job.
    Shes bad at her job compared to any character a player would put in her place. Thats my standard for her being bad at her job. Just because shes adequate for her job on Normal difficulty, doesn't make her good. Its because the game is mostly easy once you learn not to run into encounters with an under level party.

    Again . Ekundayo. Not Min Maxed, but perfectly acceptable. Is he a bad character because some writer forgot to dump dex in favor of Cha to show what an "Oh so deep" character he is? Please. Valeries dumb stats add nothing to the story. The story is the same no matter what her stats are. The only thing they do is frustrate a player.

    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    Maybe it just makes you bad at the game if you haven't worked out how to use her. She has the stats for her build and to get the feats for her build.
    Not worth responding to. But I am embarrassed on your behalf.

  9. #59
    Becoming a Lich was a good idea.

  10. #60
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    As I said on another topic, there are many ways to play an RPG. Gelatinous Noob, you, and others who are irate at the NPCs in this game, obviously don't play the same way as I, maybe Evelynstarshine and the Devs, play the game. And to us, the NPCs, while certainly not optimized, do their job well enough.
    We don't place the cursor of "well enough" at the same place as you, and it's an old story in RPGs. Some have even theorized whole concepts about this discrepancy (look up the old GNS articles at the Forge, for instance) and have said that players like you and us are irreconciliable.
    I don't agree with that, but it's true that two opposite ways of playing bring up some heavy conflicts at times.

    Anyway, this debate will bring nothing in my opinion, let's agree to disagree.
    Last edited by No One of Consequence; 10-11-2018 at 03:53 AM.

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