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  1. #81
    I cant even get my character created. I get to the end with name picking alignment it wont go further then that

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by justdust@hotmail.it View Post
    I'm starting thinking that you haven't considered the original Pathfinder ruling about encounters. If you'd followed it you'd know that 3 wolves are CR3 and there are no chance for a party of 4 lvl 1 to kill this group of monsters... I'm a master of Pathfinder and I can't figure out how did you balanced this game... I've succeded only the defence of Oleg's trading post for a total of 7 hours of game... I counted even "missed" hit and there's no possibilities to see an 80% of miss during a game... please, just do something...
    I...doubt your mastery of the game if this is your opinion. Specifically the three wolf encounters, is very doable by a party of four 1st level characters. I could make one that could solo that at first level. I have been running pathfinder since beta back in 2008, subscribed to each companion, setting, and hardback releases that Paizo has. It is very possible. Swashbuckler, a decent color spray from sorc or wiz or just about any spellcaster ever, a high dex finesse magus, a druid, barbarian, the list goes on and on. Understandably, some options from the p&p (pen and paper) are not present here, but I digress. It is absolutely doable. That said, it surely would take a bit of luck and could swing either way, but 'no chance' is absurd. Valerie damn near starts with an ac of what--22? A wolf has 13hp generally; a freaking commoner can nearly down one with a greatsword. It would be swingy; very dependant on rolls, but a 45% of success is not 0%. A barbarian with 14str can rage, 2hand a greatsword (required) and power attack would get +9 to damage and 2d6. Can hardly not kill one outright; very doable! Initiative, attack rolls, cmb checks on trip attempts, there is a lot of complications that can swing for or against, but even a single could do it at 1st, with a 15 point build, within starting gold perimeters.

    4 party members, easy as all get out.

    That said, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with what you have said; a deep level of confusion into the balancing.

    There are some very strange things going on encounter wise; the Man eater troll, the Wildlord cat, in particular. I'm trying them at 2nd level, but have a pretty solid party and know what I am doing, and custom difficulty has been set to match traditional pathfinder rules to the best of its ability. Maybe those are supposed to be specific higher level encounters; but I have trouble figuring, why they are present in the stolen lands, and not in the highlands, or further south at least. both are clearly variants of a base creature type; troll, and big cat, respectively. I have personally run kingmaker 5 times now; it holds a very special place in my heart, and is the campaign in which I witnessed my players first tpk. It started with a giant frog. I digress again; the explicit design of them game restricted most encounters to ever being near or above cr4 in the first chapter prior to the end of the first 'chapter'
    Spoiler:
    (with the exception of a random encounter at the top of the chart; you could run into a cr6 will-o-wisp, that was the end of my parties tpk. After you get into the nitty gritty and defeat your first real foe, and begin claiming territory, sure, throw things into the wind and let characters encounter horrendous things in the wild; but it does not feel right just out of the gate.

    That also said, devs, I understand the design choice for possibly accounting for having the ability to save and retry some encounters. In P&P, you cannot stop, reload, or disregard consequences and redo an encounter. You play ironman, all the time. So Paizo has intentionally designed encounters to be in the party's favor. The wolves encounter statement above by JustDust is 100% accurate to its design purpose, though it would be considered a very difficult encounter, impossible is nearly 4-5 more than party level (and in my experience, still doable with a strong understanding of the mechanics of the game, and a little luck) It is perfectly acceptable if I have to test and experiment, and use save slots to determine if an area is remotely possible at the time...being able to implement much harder encounters makes up for being able to go back and try it again. I am not complaining about those if that is specifically designed, and its expected for one to have to feel out the game. I will admit though, its very annoying in the first levels of the game.

    BUT cr14 random encounters. No good. At all. The game is about struggling through difficult wilderness and overcoming obstacles to finally settle the frontier, and deal with its mysterious otherworldly history. Not get rng walled by an absolutely impossible encounter. Strategy can do only so much, stats can inflate only so much past the expected point where a character is considered 'strong' at what they do. But it cannot deal with +60min damage swings with only 38hp that are only avoidable 5% of the time in an encounter that would subject one to at least 30 of those attacks.

    So I bring a suggestion at least; restrict Cr's higher than 6 from generating within the first chapter or so of the game that is not a specific encounter. Of course, I do not understand how the game calculates CR, and if the difficulty is static regardless of difficulty and monster increases, or adjusted based on difficulty. So this may not be possible in your generation coding. I do sure hope you guys figure out what you want. It is still an absolutely amazing game.

    Thanks for all the hard work, and cheers to a masterpiece in the making. Hope this leads to other Adventure path's seeing the light of day.
    Last edited by lewisjvarn@gmail.com; 10-14-2018 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Clarification

  3. #83
    Keep in mind, it's a sandbox game. You may need to level up to go fight something that is too hard for a 1st or 2nd level part. My 4th level party wiped the floor with the troll.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Aethor Whitemantle View Post
    Keep in mind, it's a sandbox game. You may need to level up to go fight something that is too hard for a 1st or 2nd level part. My 4th level party wiped the floor with the troll.
    I have no problem with games that require this. In fact, some of the best experiences are when I have returned to a hard area and can manage it better.

    However, games that require this *with* a timer on quests can be punishing on mistakes and players that lack prescience. This turns the game into a game that encourages save scumming. Game Maker's Toolkit explores this pretty well in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go0BQugwGgM

    If the timer disappeared and random encounters were reworked, this might provide more meaningful losing.

  5. #85
    Losing patients, like i said i love this game, but i'm losing patients. Especially when It comes to "random encounters" . My party is CR level 7 and while I was adventuring in the dire narlmarchers I was wiped into an encounter against elder earth elemental's CR level 12 ??? Why? why do the devs want to wipe us with combat that is unfair? Do you get a kick out of it? It's just not fair !!!! no way to escape combat and we are locked in combat that we cannot even escape? I have no control what so ever !! I'm sorry but this is not role playing .. I'm trying to role play but the game keeps screwing me ... ! I hope you address the encounter system as fast ass possible .. not only the bugs but the game play .. or else i might just quit ... hope you care ... seems to me that someone (devs) made the wrong choice with random encounters ... please address this with your fellow devs ..
    Last edited by serptico@hotmail.com; 10-18-2018 at 01:02 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by serptico@hotmail.com View Post
    Losing patients, like i said i love this game, but i'm losing patients. Especially when It comes to "random encounters" . My party is CR level 7 and while I was adventuring in the dire narlmarchers I was wiped into an encounter against elder earth elemental's CR level 12 ??? Why? why do the devs want to wipe us with combat that is unfair? Do you get a kick out of it? It's just not fair !!!! no way to escape combat and we are locked in combat that we cannot even escape? I have no control what so ever !! I'm sorry but this is not role playing .. I'm trying to role play but the game keeps screwing me ... ! I hope you address the encounter system as fast ass possible .. not only the bugs but the game play .. or else i might just quit ... hope you care ... seems to me that someone (devs) made the wrong choice with random encounters ... please address this with your fellow devs ..
    I think they plan to address this after bugs, as per the message at the end of the most recent patch notes. They didn't come out and say they would address this particular issue (which is a dealbreaker to me too), but that they would be working on larger conceptual patches after getting as many hotfix / bug type situations worked out. Hopefully, they will address this concern.

  7. #87
    I'd like to chime in and share my huge problem with how the game handle difficulty too.
    It's not the "amount" of difficulty that is causing problem (there is the difficulty level for that), but rather the very questionable design choices that are linked to it.
    I like sandbox games and immersion, so I don't mind at all that there is very strong encounters that you need to come back to later if you encounter them early. No problem at all. In fact I'd like to see more of them, considering how the region is supposely wild and untamed.
    BUT, I have a VERY HIGH dislike of the completely anti-immersive and annoying way some things were handled :

    - No way to run from a fight. If you put wildly different levels of encounters, then you need to allow players to escape once they realize they're over their head.

    - The custom difficulty tool is absolutely great... until you realize that its effects aren't really following its apparent description.

    - But the single worst one, and the one that is being discussed a lot on Reddit and Steam : the ridiculous bloated enemy stats. Not only is it very artificial difficulty, it's especially annoying because it breaks the internal consistency of the world, means that nothing make sense and prevents from taking informed decisions. Regular Goblins have demi-god stat (we're talking about 22 dexterity for a run-of-the-mill, randomly-encountered skirmisher), a "mature leopard" has the same HP as a young dragon (it has 120 hp minimum, as I inflicted it 119 damage before t wiped my party) and so on. And let's be clear, I'm getting these numbers with a custom difficulty made to approximate core rules, not some "make my life a living hell" setting.
    I really don't understand the design decision which led to this choice, which is extremely annoying both in term of difficulty spike, but more than anything in immersion. It feels like there is different sets of rules for my guys and for the NPC, it feels like everything is arbitrary and nothing makes sense, it means I can't guess what is the logical strength of foes, it means that I don't have anything close to the PnP experience.

    If the designers were afraid the game was going to be too easy, they could have added more foes per encounter, put less powerful items in the game (in fact, the "monty haul" feeling is not something I find engaging, I would prefer a more grounded experience), give PC less powerful stat (they are made with the "epic campaign" ruleset, which about 10 points higher than the "normal" one), used more powerful creatures (a troll instead of a goblin for example, at least you know what you are in rather than being blindsided by a goblin stronger than an ogre) or simply tell the player that they need to crank up the difficulty level. But to mess up all stat like that for normal settings is just a no-win decision, regardless of the angle.

  8. #88
    I’d like to begin with saying that I absolutely love this game and what you’re trying to do! A true old-school pnp crpg adaption and a gem/classic in the making. I immediately signed up and backed it when I heard about it. That said I have some feedback and constructive criticism.

    Encounter design:

    Enemies are generally equal or sometimes even fewer in numbers than the full party of six characters. Know that this reverses the tried and true paradigm of epic strong heroes taking on hordes of enemies this system is somewhat designed for, and to some degree can be expected in the genre. I saw on the forum that the average party intended for the module was 4 player characters or something like that. With that in mind, one can expect and increase in number of oppenents by 50-100% instead of just buffing those enemies. It’s fine for the single big bad guys though.

    But this also has gameplay and character design choices effects, even in normal or what I consider core (challenging with normal enemies instead of somewhat tougher):

    - Enemies need to be highly buffed to present a challenge to the party instead of relying number of opponents.

    - This invalidates or make to a large extent many spells and abilities very poor choices that are considered staple and made especially to shine in those situations within the Pathfinder ruleset. See below:

    o Area effect damage and blasting (high saves, little damage compared to buffed HP/stats, hits few enemies)

    o Are effect debuffs aimed at multiple enemies (examples like sleep/hypnotism is obsolete/useless incredibly fast, and also even higher level spells have a very hard time to trigger. This is also what is generally considered some of the most powerful options in DnD/Pathfinder.)

    o Cleaving feats/combat reflexes for fighter types (won’t be enough enemies or situations that this can trigger and have a big impact considering the high investment. Even with enlarge/reach)

    o ¾ BAB progression hybrid fighting classes cannot hit enemies often enough to contribute (especially those relying on multiple ability scores for abilities, and it’s even worse when high DR comes into play)

    - All of this results in even more ”swingy” outcomes depending on rng luck rather than preparation based on expectations and forces more savescumming and meta game knowledge. But it also makes combat somewhat less satisfying than it could be. At least I find it satisfying when a buffed fighter cleaves through several easier mobs to get to the bad guy, or a well placed fireball/debuff takes out a large number of bad guys for a similar reason.

    When someone designs a character around a certain role, it should have many moments to shine and excel throughout the game, and not just be highly situational, especially for the genre staples. Yes, I know there is a big difference in strength between classes/archetypes and abilities/spells within DnD/Pathfinder ruleset, but with encounter design around this, it could help with their raison d’etre.

    Higher difficulty levels:

    I don’t have so much to say here. Buffing stats is one way to go, and it can be an expected ingridient. But here I would advice scaling these kind of buffs with character progression, since there is very little you can do to get around them early levels, and you get more options as you progress.
    Another one is larger number of enemies, or different kind of enemies abilities, but the latter takes more effort of course.

    Kingdom management:

    Not much to say here apart from what’s been said, but the math regarding.. well everything seems to be off by a factor of at least 2. I don’t know if this was implemented true to the PnP campaign fairly straight off but here I think it would be good if you could revisit the calculations and time spent doing events/projects:

    - Time the entire campaign is expected to last make most projects/investments a bad idea. In some cases the return of investment doesn’t even break even by endgame. Depending on how sizeable these are, you’d expect a return of 1,5-2,0 by endgame with good planning and choices.

    - Right off the bat there are difficuly levels that are close to even with swingy outcomes. This could potentially lead to a game spiralling out of control, not faulting the player. It seems some checks have been made easier since the beta, but here I would put it at somewhere around 30% failure rate at most, but for higher difficulty choices it could be increased slightly I guess.

    - Time for research projects/general projects are way to long compared to how long you have for each chapter and the entire campaign.

    - Upgrades to villages and towns are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, again off by a factor of 2 or perhaps more in some cases.

    I know that some of these things will be difficult to change or look into with all you have on your plate at the moment, but I still hope that you can at least reflect on some of these points.

    Thank you again for a great game!

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by luhh View Post
    I’d like to begin with saying that I absolutely love this game and what you’re trying to do! A true old-school pnp crpg adaption and a gem/classic in the making. I immediately signed up and backed it when I heard about it. That said I have some feedback and constructive criticism.

    Encounter design:
    (...) (cut for length)

    I agree with most of what you said. Great, shining potential, and a very good game at the moment, some bugs breaking it right now and they have the priority obviously, but when they have the time, Owlcat Games should take a look at things like this post and a few others, those that try to be factual, and bring some concrete suggestions (compared to many of the complaints some have).

    Some have also suggested a quicker way to travel (either with better roads, river travel or obviously high-level spells like Teleport).

  10. #90
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    I have to agree with those who say this is a great game "but"...

    It is a great game... but...

    For me the bugs are very annoying, and I'm disappointed by the quantity of them, but y'all are working on fixing them so I'm not going to freak out over them. Maybe walk away for awhile, but I'm not giving up just from those alone.

    And the random encounters that are 'impossible' obviously suck... but I also know from experience now that most of those actually are not *impossible* just VERY hard requiring you to save scum a few times and LEARN new tactics that you didn't know existed before. So again annoying but not the 'end of the world' for me.

    But the kingdom management system IS really starting to drive me crazy. Partly it drives me crazy because "it's so cool... but...". And partly it drives me crazy because it actually IS good ... except for some killer design oversights.

    1) It drives me crazy to have two events for a single adviser -- and not just a problem and an opportunity, which is bad enough, but two problems -- that last over 20 days not show up until there are only ~10-15 days left before they expire. This is just bad design. It should never be impossible to do something important like this. Hard, yes. Careful planning and juggling and management yes absolutely! (Especially on the harder levels.) Impossible, no. Ideally things should either A) always pop on day 1 of a month so you have TIME to plan things out, or B) never take more than 3/4 (even on unfair, 1/2 or less on easy) of the remaining time before they expire.

    If necessary -- I don't think it is, but if you do oh well -- then either solution could be explained away by game mechanics, it's just a question of how you want to handle it. Personally I think the 1st of the month is the better option. It lets you have the rest of the month for adventuring (when applicable) OR upgrade projects, at a small price to realism. If desired you could restore said realism by adding some text about 'I've heard some rumors about X and now we finally figured out what's going on' to events that currently would have popped late the previous month. But I don't see that as actually necessary.

    2) Claim time, upgrade time, research time, etc... please strongly consider cutting it by at least 1/4 for the harder levels and at least 2/3rds for easy.

    3) I agree with the earlier poster that the ROI on buildings is WAY too low. They either need to give more return or have less cost. Perhaps even both, probably LOTS of both for 'easy'. There is a reasonable argument the current ROI is at least semi-appropriate for "unfair". But not for any other level.

    4) Not as sure on project costs. I do think they are too high, but there is also lots of junk around to pick up and in a worst case scenario you can always just go back to previous dungeons to haul crap around for a few days to get extra money to buy BP. Not remotely enough to do *everything* of course, but enough to do some things. Of course the time needed to do THAT leads directly into the next issue/suggestion...

    5) Please consider NOT locking the baron during upgrades OR providing some fixes for the problems it causes. I understand the logic behind the locking of the baron -- probably better than you think I do, actually. It's a great way to get the time between the 'main events' to pass and quickly get to the next stage of the game. It's also actually semi-realistic, because a 'major' project SHOULD occupy your attention... but not exclusively occupy it.

    And it also has some key problems

    5a) Outside of 'normal' BP production you can't do ANYTHING to help prepare for the future during that time. Your other advisors and/or companions should be handling this for you while you are 'super busy'. They should be doing something to help. Maybe random small extra income of gold or BP or better yet both. If so perhaps a target average (on 'core') of +50% normal BP production as the bonus and/or the equivalent in gold. I've come home from some adventures with barely enough cash to replenish heal scrolls (why so few potion merchants BTW?), but others with enough cash to buy 1000+ BP. Given that IMO it's clear that an extra ~20~60BP and the same in gold is actually a 'small' bonus. Obviously they aren't 'as good' without your 'excellent leadership' perhaps, but they should not sit around 'doing nothing' either. Maybe RNG of 20-30% on 'unfair' and 60-80% on easy with (obviously) a sliding scale between those extremes.

    5b) And/or (again preferably both) the other advisors should be able to PAUSE your "time skip" when a major problem pops so you can assign someone to it. Maybe you can't do anything else, this would be completely reasonable. But I've had times when a problem finally shows up on day 22 (or similar) of a month and expires before my two-week upgrade can complete. And again this is just BAD design. Sorry to be harsh about it, but I'm a highly-experienced programmer myself even if I can't write a game like this I know bad design when I see it, and this is bad design. Ideally they should have shown up earlier anyway, but if they finally do show up while you are 'locked' let your advisors "interrupt you" and PAUSE the main project for a bit to let you handle the "unexpected emergency".

    Come to think of it... maybe that could be another RNG... higher INT/WIS/CHA advisors are more likely to interrupt you (especially if they are neutral or good) and perhaps evil advisors LESS likely to do so thinking when you fall maybe they can take over your barony. (Or perhaps they need STR stat? not sure here) At least on 'unfair' difficulties this might actually be fun! For easy, of course, they should always barge in 100% of the time.

    6) Minor (or major) bugs in this area don't help. For example my Arcane advisor upgrade from 5 to 6 gives me the invisible advisor bug. If I let the guy make the golems I get THAT project but still not the stat upgrade project. If I choose no or take Octavia's advice, either way end of chain. My baron is a neutral good wizard BTW, I know sometimes that matters even if I VERY much also think that's bad design as well. I know other folks have run into this issue (and other similar ones) before and I'm sure you'll fix this one too... but it still doesn't help.

    Also getting FOUR icons in the 'kingdom effects' bar when I pick the military-based region upgrade (forget exact name ATM) for Varnhold is annoying. Trivial in comparison to many other problems, but still annoying. Especially when there are five regions in question so I can't even make the icon count make sense that way (not that I think I should have to).




    I'm sure you won't do all of the above, but you really do need to strongly consider doing at least some of it. As is right now the kingdom management is the 'second torpedo' that sinks an otherwise very good game. The bugs are of course the first one and yes obviously they are very annoying, but again I know y'all are working on this, considering just how many y'all have already fixed this quickly I expect y'all will get those holes patched. At least most of them. But the kingdom management problems shouldn't be ignored in the meantime.
    Last edited by FriarBob; 10-23-2018 at 08:31 PM.
    Don't bring a sword to a spellfight.

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