Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ghilteras@gmail.com View Post
    It's really frustrating that you need to quicksave before any chest just because you might roll a 1 or a 2 or a 3 (which happens incredibly often..) when you have 4+ success rate.
    You don't "need" to quicksave.

    Sometimes a roll goes against you. Just accept that and move on. There's nothing wrong with failing once in a while so long as it doesn't stop the game from continuing.

  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    53
    There are also items which can give you +trickery. I use one of those, and it seems very rare that I fail to open a container. It's not quite equivalent to "always succeed", but it's close.

    Once upon a time in the early days of computer RPGs, games didn't allow save-scumming, even if they sometimes did allow save-everywhere. They'd have just one save slot. Saving would automatically exit the game, and you could continue from that point next time, but you could not "go back in time" just because some die roll or combat didn't go your way. More or less, "ironman" was the only way you could play.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandoned Arts View Post
    Not in Last Azlanti mode you're not.
    The game is a bit too unstable to be doing that.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by democratus View Post
    You don't "need" to quicksave.

    Sometimes a roll goes against you. Just accept that and move on. There's nothing wrong with failing once in a while so long as it doesn't stop the game from continuing.

    There is a container in the City of hollow eyes that I have tried to open at least 6 times, with different characters and at different levels. It has a difficulty of something as 41, with all the bonuses my guys with trickery have around 30 as modified value (they have used Heroism, good hope, inspire competence, trapspringer gloves and Ring of reckless luck to modify it). It never suceeded.

    Four or more days of travel to attempt again isn't exactly fun, especially when all I will get there now is an encounter with some bandits (at least, the last time there was a bandit encampment in that location).
    Last edited by Caine; 10-31-2018 at 09:28 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Earth. Or so I was told.
    Posts
    701
    Quote Originally Posted by democratus View Post
    You don't "need" to quicksave.

    Sometimes a roll goes against you. Just accept that and move on. There's nothing wrong with failing once in a while so long as it doesn't stop the game from continuing.
    Except sometimes, it does prevent you from succeeding some quest or other. Maybe a minor quest, maybe something major, we don't know, and we'd rather be able to succeed than fail due a missed roll (i.e. random fail).

    There was a similar problem with some plants that you could miss from a difficult perception check (DC 26, IIRC) and you could not retry the check, which would fail the quest to retrieve the plants. It has been corrected by some early hotfix. To me, non-retry lockpicking is the same problem.

    It's not a big deal, but it's annoying for, in my estimation, no good reason.

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    Except sometimes, it does prevent you from succeeding some quest or other. Maybe a minor quest, maybe something major, we don't know, and we'd rather be able to succeed than fail due a missed roll (i.e. random fail).

    There was a similar problem with some plants that you could miss from a difficult perception check (DC 26, IIRC) and you could not retry the check, which would fail the quest to retrieve the plants. It has been corrected by some early hotfix. To me, non-retry lockpicking is the same problem.

    It's not a big deal, but it's annoying for, in my estimation, no good reason.
    It ha ben fixed? I still have a single mushroom and I have searched the area at least 10 times, with different characters and at different levels.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ghilteras@gmail.com View Post
    Characters should just be able to take 10 for lockpicking and story drive skill checks so you avoid the save/try/reload and of course challenge would be scaled based on the level of the encounter like it is on every Paizo Adventure Path
    No, task isn't supposed to be easy, so no take 10/20's, you either pass or fail, period. That's part of the game, and shouldn't nor does it need changing.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Emerald Viper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    121
    When you level up and increase Trickery for Traps/Locks and Perception for hidden items, you will get a new try at the Lock/Perception check. So other then the issues with quest items... you can just try again after level up.

  9. #29
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Earth. Or so I was told.
    Posts
    701
    Taking 10 is not about difficulty, it's about stress and danger. Taking 20 is not about difficulty, it's about time and no consequences for rolling a "1", as if you rolled 20 times your dice and rolled every possible result from to 20.

    It's not me, it's the Pathfinder rules :
    "Taking 10 and Taking 20

    A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.

    Taking 10

    When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

    Taking 20

    When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you a d20 roll enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

    Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).

    Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
    Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks

    The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks."

    And about retries for locks :
    https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/disable-device/

    'Open a Lock

    The DC to open a lock depends on the lock’s quality: simple (DC 20), average (DC 25), good (DC 30), or superior (DC 40).

    Modifiers: If you do not have a set of thieves’ tools, these DCs increase by 10.

    Retry? Yes. You can retry checks made to open locks.
    Table: Disable Device DCs to Open Locks Lock Quality DC
    Simple 20
    Average 25
    Good 30
    Amazing 40
    Action

    The amount of time needed to make a Disable Device check depends on the task:

    Simple Device: Disabling a simple device takes 1 round and is a full-round action.
    Complex/Intricate Device: An intricate or complex device requires 1d4 or 2d4 rounds. Attempting to open a lock is a full-round action."

    So, there you have it, we should be able to take 10 or 20 unless threatened by monsters or some other danger (take 10), or if we didn't have 2 full minutes (take 20). Now, I would have no problem whatsoever if they chose to give us thieves' tools and we broke them by missing the DC by 5 or more (like we trigger a trap), so we could not take 20.
    And trying to open a lock with no proper tools should give us a penalty. But all in all, we should get retries without waiting for a full level. We can't even make notes on the map to remember to go back open this chest (and we'd lose time travelling again just for a chest, or a plant).

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    It ha ben fixed? I still have a single mushroom and I have searched the area at least 10 times, with different characters and at different levels.
    Maybe we don't speak of the same thing. I was referring to some of the plants in the swamp witch area. I read it was fixed some time ago (I thought I had missed it once and looked it up, but then I noticed i had missed the whole area where they'd been. Silly me).

  10. #30
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    141
    I also think that given Pathfinder TT rules allow retry in Open Lock rolls, so should this game.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •