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  1. #1

    why no retries for lockpicking makes no sense

    You know we are just quicksaving right before the roll right? So what's the point in having no retries?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Stolen Lands
    You can try for every single person who have trickery. AND you can come back and do that again after you level up.. Would it be better if you would break pick in the lock and get text "critical failure, this chest can never be opened". It is not supposed to happen that you just "automatic" get XP and items. Even if you have low skill. You have time, you can get back there with another party member (you do get 11 companion) or just wait for level up...
    "Road to the man's heart go through the chest"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    I didn't know that you got another attempt after a level up; that changes my opinion.

  4. #4
    Member Abandoned Arts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You know we are just quicksaving right before the roll right?
    Not in Last Azlanti mode you're not.

  5. #5
    It still makes no sense to come back in a far away place after a level or after you switch a party member just to try again opening a little box, it's poor design. My point is that you should NOT ROLL for this, you just take 10 or take 20 if you are willing to spend a lot of time while opening the box, both of these are much more elegant solutions. That would make quicksaving useless.

    So you try opening the box, the system uses 10 and if it's enough you open it, if it's not enough it says "you could spend a lot of time to force it open" and you either do a full rest or just face an encounter or get fatigued.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    it's poor design.
    It would be poor design if it didn't ever allow players to fail at something, making character skill investment choices inconsequential by allowing unlimited attempts to succeed. It would also not be in the spirit of the rules.

    Save scumming will always make a game easier. You've got that option if you want it, or you could play by the rules and invest heavily in a character with lockpicking skills if you want a low chance of failure. Either way, no real issue here.

  7. #7
    You did not read what I wrote. If you did not have to roll this would be a non issue! I'll repeat since you did not read: for these checks you should just be able to take 10 so save scumming would not be possible.

    I would even consider allowing taking 20 in some cases, like lockpicking, with some caveats. It makes NO SENSE that a GM would not allow a party to open a chest given hours of time.

    So yes in the end it's definitely poor design to allow cheesing quicksaving for dialogues and other skill checks like this.

  8. #8
    You can take ten with the according class abilities. The archaeologist gets one for example.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post

    So yes in the end it's definitely poor design to allow cheesing quicksaving for dialogues and other skill checks like this.
    Yeah, I don't think you read what *I* wrote. Save scumming is the unavoidable potential of a "save anywhere" game system, and it will always make any game easier. But, it's what the vast majority of players prefer, because in the end the positive aspects outweigh the potential negatives. They will always have a choice of playing by the rules, or reloading for an optimal result-and thats great that both ways of enjoying the game are supported.

    Forcing a player to take 10 just means the challenge level of a task will be static. You will know you only need x ranks in Y skill to pass Z check so the amount of points youre willing to invest stat will be the minimum to achieve whatever result you want. Personally I prefer the surprise of the more random system adding a bit of fuzziness to each playthrough, and I like the fact that i can fail at things, and must choose to invest heavily in a certain skill in order to get the best success rate.

    I don't want to blow your mind here, but not every player save scums, or is willing to go through the tedium of multiple reloads just to get the best result at the expense of roleplaying. If you are, then more power to you, but this is not a universal approach to playing an RPG.

  10. #10
    Characters should just be able to take 10 for lockpicking and story drive skill checks so you avoid the save/try/reload and of course challenge would be scaled based on the level of the encounter like it is on every Paizo Adventure Path

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