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  1. #51
    I personally gave the game a glowing review on GoG, but with the caveat that the foundation is solid and the features are there. The current iteration of the game really isn't great.

    My biggest gripe is that all the recent iterations of Isometric RPGs since Pillars of Eternity *spit* took the superficial aspects of iRPGs and tied the mechanics more closely to what feels like Diablo II/JRPGs with a far steeper power curve, and it seems like Pathfinder: Kingmaker was trying to do the same thing.

    My best memories of Baldur's Gate were of trying to figure out how to beat a tough fight I was about to enter, checking my inventory, finding a Potion of Heroism and a Potion of Speed, and with some proper positioning, those two potions being what made the difference between victory and defeat.

    You don't really have those experience in the current game of Kingmaker. Two potions won't make a difference. A tough fight leads you back to town, where you buy two buff potions for everyone in the party, and on top of it stock up on 30 health potions or whatever you can afford at that point. Hell, 3 Spider Swarms took me around 15 acid flasks.

    TL;DR: Biggest gripe with the game is that it's simply not possible to gain a victory with what you happen have on hand from your previous adventures. Every single encounter feels as if the player is preparing to invade Normandy Beach.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post
    That. You put it better than I did. Great examples are found a couple pages back in amardariel and gelatinous noob's comments, dismissing everything anyone who had a complaint about encounter balance had to say.
    Whoah, whoah! It was not my intent to do any such thing, and I acknowledged somewhere or another (Ive lost track of the threads) that people have different comfort levels with things. My only position is that I don't *understand* the position that this game is somehow more difficult than BG, etc. The same stuff works for in in this game as did that one, and I find the game on normal difficulty mostly quite easy, with a few more challenging encounters--which is about par for the course for this sort of game.

    Disagreeing with your position is not the same as dismissing it. You might have an opinion, but no one is required to respect or agree with it. I respect good arguments, but not poorly supported opinion with which I have a differing experience (not directing this at you, just speaking generally).

    So to the extent I may have made you feel like I was dismissive of your opinion, I apologize. That was truly not my intent, and I'm not trying to be a jerk--though I might unintentionally be a jerk. As far as issuing a counter opinion though, thats just the way things are, and I feel no particular pressure to respect an opinion that I disagree with and don't find well supported. Game consumers complain about lots of stuff. Very little of it is actually worth listening to.
    Last edited by Gelatinous Noob; 10-01-2018 at 10:26 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Noob View Post
    Whoah, whoah! It was not my intent to do any such thing, and I acknowledged somewhere or another (Ive lost track of the threads) that people have different comfort levels with things. My only position is that I don't *understand* the position that this game is somehow more difficult than BG, etc. The same stuff works for in in this game as did that one, and I find the game on normal difficulty mostly quite easy, with a few more challenging encounters--which is about par for the course for this sort of game.

    Disagreeing with your position is not the same as dismissing it. You might have an opinion, but no one is required to respect or agree with it. I respect good arguments, but not poorly supported opinion with which I have a differing experience (not directing this at you, just speaking generally).

    So to the extent I may have made you feel like I was dismissive of your opinion, I apologize. That was truly not my intent, and I'm not trying to be a jerk--though I might unintentionally be a jerk. As far as issuing a counter opinion though, thats just the way things are, and I feel no particular pressure to respect an opinion that I disagree with and don't find well supported. Game consumers complain about lots of stuff. Very little of it is actually worth listening to.
    I don't mean it as an attack, but you come across as dismissive, effectively communicating "well, I don't have a problem with it, therefore it's not a problem and your complaint isn't a valid issue." What Bob described as "It's not a problem because I don't think it is" communicated in a way to suggest those who disagree should be disregarded.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post
    I don't mean it as an attack, but you come across as dismissive, effectively communicating "well, I don't have a problem with it, therefore it's not a problem and your complaint isn't a valid issue." What Bob described as "It's not a problem because I don't think it is" communicated in a way to suggest those who disagree should be disregarded.
    Well, again then, to the extent that it made you feel dismissed I apologize. However theres no getting around the fact that I *don't* think it's a large problem beyond the various tuning tweaks to specific encounters that have been coming in, and I'm not going to pretend that I do because someone thinks it's mean when someone issues a counter opinion and supports it, as I have tried to do in most of my posts.

    I am, however, quite happy to entertain well reasoned counter arguments.

  5. #55
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    Honestly, you are not near as bad as the other dude. But you have also not addressed my particular issue, which isn't difficulty, but balance.

    Specifically, that at the difficulty purportedly most reflecting pnp, enemies have inflated rolls, inflated stats, and are optimized. While your npc companions are mostly only mediocre at their intended jobs (except for a few) and nowhere near optimized. And custom companions are expensive. It's not that the encounters aren't beatable. They are. All too often with what would have been in TT a party wipe requiring a lot of new characters from the players or raise dead spells, but beatable nonetheless.

    I would like to play with enemies statted like in pnp. Maybe more of them, or adding some class levels or extra enemy types to add some challenge. But not against a leopard with +17 to hit and five attacks per round at level 3-4. It feels like to increase the challenge they just went "let's do heart of fury mode but without the extra xp and good gear." It's not that it's difficult, it's how they went about making it more difficult.
    Last edited by mcknightva; 10-01-2018 at 10:59 PM.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post
    Honestly, you are not near as bad as the other dude. But you have also not addressed my particular issue, which isn't difficulty, but balance.
    Will endeavor to do so here.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post
    Specifically, that at the difficulty purportedly most reflecting pnp, enemies have inflated rolls, inflated stats, and are optimized. While your npc companions are mostly only mediocre at their intended jobs (except for a few) and nowhere near optimized.
    This is not wrong, but not outside of the experience for pretty much every party based cRPG Ive played the last couple decades. Players *always* complain about it, and developers are *always* going to do it. Theres always going to be some writer on staff that is in love with their character concept to the extent they will gimp a character to express it in numerical values. Yes Valerie has good stats for a Paladin, not so much for the front line fighter tank shes supposed to be, but it's somehow important to give her lousy stats because of "story". So, this game is basically about the same as any other of its type at this particular offense.

    However, on normal difficulty, which is the difficulty the game was designed around, it's simply not an issue. The stock NPCs are adequate for the task, and if they arent on harder difficulty settings, thats to be expected because they are, in fact, *harder*, requiring more optimization. If an encounter ever goes badly on normal difficulty, it's not because Valerie has a few useless points in CHA rather than STR, INT, DEX, or CON.To observe that nonstandard difficulties are, in fact, more difficult is a waste of time.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post

    And custom companions are expensive.
    I agree with you here and have elsewhere. Though this point is far from gamebreaking on Normal.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightva View Post
    I would like to play with enemies statted like in pnp.
    I'm goijng to blow your mind here maybe, but PNP is not designed to be a challenging experience for a single player cRPG. PnP rules are designed to be forgiving for a party of multiple players with different agendas to be able to run around and act out power fantasies in sub optimal fashion. Roleplayers and tacticians are constantly butting heads in TT, because someone makes a character concept that is more fanciful than useful, or makes a boneheaded move during combat, when "if they had only have done X instead". And when those rules *do* in fact become too punishing the DM/GM is encouraged, usually in the first few pages of a rulebook, to throw the rules out and do whats best for the story.

    A single player CRPG, on the other hand, is controlled by a single person, making far more optimal decisions in terms of party composition, character advancement, and battlefield strategy with all party members on the same page. If the same were true of PnP content, most of it would be horribly unchallenging.

    So there are so called "core" stats and balancing, and theres whatever the devs need to do to deliver a challenge on normal difficulty that is more or less in line with other games of this type. They may or may not have done the latter (I think they mostly have), but one should not confuse the former with the latter. "Core" =/= "normal".

    This is my position, and with few exceptions, I think players would be better at learning the systems and making use of the resources the game gives you rather than asking for a custom setting that caters to their unwillingness to do so. If the mere fact I have this opinion means I'm dismissing someone else's, then I'm sorry that the potential for public discourse on the internet has degraded so badly.

    BUT. I have also stated that because it doesn't really affect me as long as the devs leave the current normal difficulty more or less untouched baring tuning tweaks, I have no objection if players would rather see resources put towards another easy mode, rather than more content and refinement. Obviously I'd prefer the latter, but Im used to being in the minority.
    Last edited by Gelatinous Noob; 10-01-2018 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Noob View Post
    Will endeavor to do so here.




    This is not wrong, but not outside of the experience for pretty much every party based cRPG Ive played the last couple decades. Players *always* complain about it, and developers are *always* going to do it. Theres always going to be some writer on staff that is in love with their character concept to the extent they will gimp a character to express it in numerical values. Yes Valerie has good stats for a Paladin, not so much for the front line fighter tank shes supposed to be, but it's somehow important to give her lousy stats because of "story". So, this game is basically about the same as any other of its type at this particular offense.

    However, on normal difficulty, which is the difficulty the game was designed around, it's simply not an issue. The stock NPCs are adequate for the task, and if they arent on harder difficulty settings, thats to be expected because they are, in fact, *harder*, requiring more optimization. If an encounter ever goes badly on normal difficulty, it's not because Valerie has a few useless points in CHA rather than STR, INT, DEX, or CON.To observe that nonstandard difficulties are, in fact, more difficult is a waste of time.




    I agree with you here and have elsewhere. Though this point is far from gamebreaking on Normal.




    I'm goijng to blow your mind here maybe, but PNP is not designed to be a challenging experience for a single player cRPG. PnP rules are designed to be forgiving for a party of multiple players with different agendas to be able to run around and act out power fantasies in sub optimal fashion. Roleplayers and tacticians are constantly butting heads in TT, because someone makes a character concept that is more fanciful than useful, or makes a boneheaded move during combat, when "if they had only have done X instead". And when those rules *do* in fact become too punishing the DM/GM is encouraged, usually in the first few pages of a rulebook, to throw the rules out and do whats best for the story.

    A single player CRPG, on the other hand, is controlled by a single person, making far more optimal decisions in terms of party composition, character advancement, and battlefield strategy with all party members on the same page. If the same were true of PnP content, most of it would be horribly unchallenging.

    So there are so called "core" stats and balancing, and theres whatever the devs need to do to deliver a challenge on normal difficulty that is more or less in line with other games of this type. They may or may not have done the latter (I think they mostly have), but one should not confuse the former with the latter. "Core" =/= "normal".

    This is my position, and with few exceptions, I think players would be better at learning the systems and making use of the resources the game gives you rather than asking for a custom setting that caters to their unwillingness to do so. If the mere fact I have this opinion means I'm dismissing someone else's, then I'm sorry that the potential for public discourse on the internet has degraded so badly.

    BUT. I have also stated that because it doesn't really affect me as long as the devs leave the current normal difficulty more or less untouched baring tuning tweaks, I have no objection if players would rather see resources put towards another easy mode, rather than more content and refinement. Obviously I'd prefer the latter, but Im used to being in the minority.

    and once again you seem to grasp what no one else does, this game is not and NEVER will be PnP, so stop bloody asking for it! You won't get your way, nor should you.

    Game would be boring as hell.

  8. #58
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    Go sit on a spiked dildo covered in lemon juice and chili powder.

  9. #59
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    GN. That makes you different from the jackass, that you don't care if the devs make a pnp faithful adaptation. The problem is people who think that because they don't want it, no one should be allowed to have it.

    And again. I have no issue with it being difficult. I object to the "hof mode" way of making it more difficult, rather than better ways of balancing encounters. And I beat hof in iwd1 and 2 with parties started at level 1.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Amardarial View Post
    and once again you seem to grasp what no one else does, this game is not and NEVER will be PnP, so stop bloody asking for it! You won't get your way, nor should you.

    Game would be boring as hell.
    Please stay off my side.

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