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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    The alignment drift is a neat system, but a difficult one to pull off. I agree with most of y'all's points.

    If you play a little with multiple alignments, then you'll see a lot of times where an option seems appropriate to your character, but is given a contrary alignment. Some of this is that most shifts seem to be to corner alignments even when the underlying action only ties to one axis (e.g., risking your life to save someone is good, not LG, NG, or CG). The idea that a LG or CG alignment would "fall" due to helping someone is odd.

    For devs, I'd recommend making more decisions just link to one axis rather than two.
    This. That's how it was implemented in NWN, IIRC.

  2. #12
    I am experiencing the same frustration. I feel like they could have put some things that are just good, or chaotic, and not always have things that are tied to both axis. Telling a sick man to go lay down until he feels better is just kind, its not lawful or chaotic, its just good. My character shouldn't be at risk of losing his Paladinhood from that. Now, I just have to let him be sick. How shitty is that?

    Lawful Neutral answers a lot of times are "Lawful Asshole." This system definitely needs some refinement.

    I would definitely say that many times if there is a "neutral" component, it shouldn't move you on that axis. Unless its specifically a True Neutral "must maintain the balance" kind of response.

  3. #13
    Member Textuality's Avatar
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    A lot of the answers seem to be extremist perspectives on alignment. Maybe that's intended, but to me it feels really awkward for a lot of them.

    For instance, freeing Jhod from the bandits when you initially find him. You can either just free him (Neutral Good), or free him while twirling your mustache and smirking (Lawful Evil). Freeing a prisoner from bandits shouldn't cause a Lawful/Chaotic good character's alignment to drift. It's simply a good act, and falls in line with both sides of the spectrum (unlawful imprisonment for LG, and robbing someone of their freedom for CG).

    I'm going through act-4 on my paladin right now, and it's becoming increasingly hard to maintain Lawful Good. Many, MANY of the "good" aligned choices are NG or CG, and the few that are LG are generally of the "brainless zealot" variety, as in "No compromise, no discussion, purge the heretics!" The fact that I'm almost literally forced to choose Lawful Neutral, or worse Lawful EVIL responses simply to keep from losing my paladinhood is incredibly bad.

    The alignment dialogues need a serious revision. Unless an act is strictly Lawful or Chaotic (upholding or flouting the law, for instance), it should simply be deemed as "good" or "evil", and only shift you on one axis (if at all). Heck, you could change a lot of the dialogues to simply "good", "neutral" and "evil" responses, and leave the specific alignment responses for very specific exchanges.

  4. #14
    In my opinion, there is a clear bias on what Lawful Good actually means. The writers seem to think it means "Lawful" means asshole, pure and simple. I have seen several Lawful Neutral answers that are just total dick answers. Lawful means you value society as a whole over the individual, but it doesn't mean that you think the individual is unimportant. Good means you value thinks like compassion, mercy, kindness for strangers over selfish and angry impulses. As Textuality and I have both said, there needs to be more answers that are just Good, or Chaotic, not both axis.

  5. #15
    Perfect example, I am in the goblin village. When you follow the goblin that is taunting you, once you pass all the traps, you can leave him alone, Neutral Good, or attack him, no alignment repercussion. I don't understand why murder is more lawful than leaving him alone.

  6. #16
    Member Textuality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Aethor Whitemantle View Post
    Perfect example, I am in the goblin village. When you follow the goblin that is taunting you, once you pass all the traps, you can leave him alone, Neutral Good, or attack him, no alignment repercussion. I don't understand why murder is more lawful than leaving him alone.
    That's what really bothers me about a lot of the alignment dialogue choices. It seems like it's laid out to be something like:

    Lawful Good: Uncompromising zealot. Evil must be punished, no matter what. No debate, no compromise. If you're evil (or even misguided), you should be killed. No questions.
    Neutral Good: Generally "good" actions, without wanting any compensation.
    Chaotic Good: Random acts of goodness, thinking of the individual's freedom.

    Lawful Neutral: The law must be followed, but I don't care if you bend it. But I WILL be a dick about it.
    Neutral: I don't give a fudge.
    Chaotic Neutral: Whatever, as long as it's interesting. Or I get something out of it.

    Lawful Evil: Snidley Whiplash twirling his mustache. Trying to screw people or get something out of them because you're evil.
    Neutral Evil: Bwahahahahaha evil!
    Chaotic Evil: Malicious self-interest at the expense of other people.

    For SOME of them, their take on it works. For others (most notably LG), it really doesn't. It promotes a very "unthinking butcher of evil" mentality that a paladin (or any other LG character) shouldn't have.

  7. #17
    Senior Member HenriHakl's Avatar
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    I had assumed that when I am Lawful Good and pick a "Neutral Good" dialog option that my alignment shifts toward "good" (i.e. up) not toward the right. To shift toward the neutral good alignment it would have to be a chaotic action too. In other words, it doesn't matter how many Neutral Good actions you take as a Lawful Good character, it would never change your alignment (you'd just become Lawful Gooder).

  8. #18
    Member Textuality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenriHakl View Post
    I had assumed that when I am Lawful Good and pick a "Neutral Good" dialog option that my alignment shifts toward "good" (i.e. up) not toward the right. To shift toward the neutral good alignment it would have to be a chaotic action too. In other words, it doesn't matter how many Neutral Good actions you take as a Lawful Good character, it would never change your alignment (you'd just become Lawful Gooder).
    Not that I've seen. Every time you pick ANYTHING other than your actual alignment, it nudges it towards the one you picked. I've generally had to choose Neutral Good (since that seems to be the most common of the "good" responses) out of necessity with my paladin, and her alignment is now VERY dangerously close to changing to Neutral Good. And that's despite choosing every Lawful Good option whenever it appeared (and even a bunch of Lawful Neutral ones, as well), purely for mechanical reasons rather than RP reasons. I'm at the point now that I desperately search for any "Lawful" response, even if it's Lawful EVIL, purely to avoid shifting to Neutral Good. And there's something seriously wrong with that, when a PALADIN is having to do evil acts just to AVOID losing their paladinhood...

  9. #19
    I think they should have made alignment choices by acis rather than specific alignment. So Law/Chaos Good/Evil and neutral for specific choices. Trying to pigeonhole alot of the choices into 1 of the 9 alignments often just feels forced.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Textuality View Post
    Not that I've seen. Every time you pick ANYTHING other than your actual alignment, it nudges it towards the one you picked. I've generally had to choose Neutral Good (since that seems to be the most common of the "good" responses) out of necessity with my paladin, and her alignment is now VERY dangerously close to changing to Neutral Good. And that's despite choosing every Lawful Good option whenever it appeared (and even a bunch of Lawful Neutral ones, as well), purely for mechanical reasons rather than RP reasons. I'm at the point now that I desperately search for any "Lawful" response, even if it's Lawful EVIL, purely to avoid shifting to Neutral Good. And there's something seriously wrong with that, when a PALADIN is having to do evil acts just to AVOID losing their paladinhood...
    Rejoice your family has been randomly selected to be brutally murdered that our paladin may remain a shining beacon of law and goodness.

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