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  1. #11
    Senior Member Naliamegod's Avatar
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    Rapiers, Estocs and Dueling Swords are the best weapons for dex Magus's. Scimitars are good for strength based, unless you get Eldritch Arcana mod that adds Dervish Dance.

    I actually prefer dex based SS over strength based Vanilla, because they are arguably the best tank in the game.

  2. #12
    Actually Scimitar works with Slashing Grace in this game just like Dervish Dance in Tabletop/Eldritch Arcana mod, so the mod is not necessary (although certainly a very good addition for playing spellcasters). They're excellent choices for Magi along with rapier and aldori dueling sword (though mainly it's because there are specific dueling swords in the game with increased crit properties).
    Decent estocs for Magi ... if they exist in the game I haven't heard about it.
    Last edited by AlexDumas; 03-06-2019 at 12:59 AM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ithildurnew@yahoo.com View Post
    Actually Scimitar works with Slashing Grace in this game just like Dervish Dance in Tabletop/Eldritch Arcana mod, so the mod is not necessary (although certainly a very good addition for playing spellcasters). They're excellent choices for Magi along with rapier and aldori dueling sword (though mainly it's because there are specific dueling swords in the game with increased crit properties).
    Decent estocs for Magi ... if they exist in the game I haven't heard about it.
    crit properties are virtually useless for Magus since one of their arcana weapon enhancement can be keen, for each 4 levels you can add an additionnal enhancement so by level 8/12 you can spare the keen enhancement easily. for Aldori dueling sword they're nice but you need to get the exotic proficiency feat in order to one hand it so it's a loss of a feat. Better take a weapon focus of a weapon that you're already proficient with.

  4. #14
    Do you get the same benefits from Spell Strike with Unarmed Strike like you would with other melees?

  5. #15
    Spell Strike requires a weapon, so no.

    As for crit properties of a weapon... wow. Far from useless. What Keen (or improved critical, which is superior eventually as it frees up magus enhancement for other nasty things) does is take the existing crit range and double it. The difference between 18-20 becoming 15-20 (scimitar, rapier, estoc) vs 19-20 (dueling sword, longsword, bastard sword, etc) becoming 17-20 can be significant for a class that is at it's best maximizing crits. Simply put, Keen doesn't make the 2 equal; it improves both. The weapon that start with superior crit range, obviously become even better.

    I think it's safe to assume people are talking about Sword Saint because of the title of thread, and exotic weapons like estoc have been suggested. SS get proficiency for free so that is a non issue, whether estoc, dueling sword, or something fancier. So ... why do we recommend things like rapier or estoc, and not longsword, bastard sword or the falcata which hits harder than any of these for x3 on crit? These can all work off of DEX with Slashing Grace exactly like rapiers with Piercing Grace (which, unless someone's planning on using nothing but Agile weapons, is a given for a rapier/estoc user). Or you can go STR based (slightly less optimal than dex). Either way you get better base damage and in the case of falcata, way superior crit damage potential.

    The reason is simple: because those weapons offer better crit range/chance to crit more often, and the obvious benefit for Magi (Spell Strike primarily, plus easy/early access to Keen), and especially for Sword Saints (add Perfect Strike, Critical Perfection, and the capstone Weapon Mastery). Scimitar has the same extended crit range as rapiers and estocs, and once you get Slashing Grace, it performs nearly identically (except piercing is resisted more commonly than slashing) as rapier/estoc (plus you get early access to a Scimitar tailor made for Magi).

    To be fair, there are a couple of very powerful Dueling Swords with unusual extended crit range properties late-ish in the game; if someone is willing to wait patiently for those and live with a smaller crit range until then, more power to them, but make no mistake - Keen (or Imp Crit) does not nullify the advantage of a weapon with higher crit range for a magus, sword saint, or ANYONE; if anything it amplifies their advantage in the crit department. That's just crazytalk.
    Last edited by AlexDumas; 03-06-2019 at 04:44 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ithildurnew@yahoo.com View Post
    To be fair, there are a couple of very powerful Dueling Swords with unusual extended crit range properties late-ish in the game; if someone is willing to wait patiently for those and live with a smaller crit range until then, more power to them, but make no mistake - Keen (or Imp Crit) does not nullify the advantage of a weapon with higher crit range for a magus, sword saint, or ANYONE; if anything it amplifies their advantage in the crit department. That's just crazytalk.
    mmh, either you're talking about having a range of 12-20, which I doubt, or you didn't understand what I said.

    While I agree that having a weapon with keen enhancement free up the place for another potential enhancement (ghost touch anyone?), I'm saying that going for a +1 keen weapon versus slicer which becomes a +4 scimitar in the hands of a magi is not a good choice, since you can get the keen property from the arcana enhancement of magus. I said that a weapon which has a threat range of 18-20 becomes 15-20 with keen, which is not stackable with critical improvement.

    Having a weapon with already a keen improvement does not stack with the keen from arcana enhancement.

    So basically, unless I'm mistaken, we said the same thing? Now I don't know about unique dueling sword which would have an unuasual threat range. If the threat range is improved from another enhancement than ''keen'' (hence, that the word keen does not appear in the list of magical properties in the weapon info), yes it would then stack to keen and have a greater potential in the threat range. However, if you're talking about +3 keen or even +4 keen weapons, it won't stack with the magi enhancement.

    It won't be totally useless for a magi, of course, as it free up the place for another enhancement. I'm just saying that a scimitar which cast call of lightning on crits seems pretty much like the best weapon one could put their hands on. Maybe not, I didn't finish the game yet, so maybe there's a better weapon out there.

  7. #17
    There seems to be a disconnect here. I think it might be perhaps because I chose the term 'crit properties' of weapons, which you apparently understood as 'Keen enhancement'... that's the only way I can make sense of your responses ("crit properties are virtually useless for Magus since you get keen", "I'm saying that going for a +1 keen weapon versus slicer which becomes a +4 scimitar in the hands of a magi is not a good choice")

    By 'crit properties' in this case I meant the base, unenhanced crit range of a weapon, i.e. 18-20 for scimitars, which makes them excellent choices for Magi. My entire point is that Scimitars are excellent choices for Magi, both STR and DEX based, because of the large crit range and because of the way Slashing Grace works in PFKM.

    There's a reason why scimitars are one of the main 'go to' weapons for Magi in both tabletop and PFKM. 18-20 made keen is 15-20, superior to 99% of dueling swords which can hit 17-20 with keen/imp crit. Exception is the handful (only 2 that I know of actually) of dueling swords that have the same base crit range as scimitars/rapiers.

    Magi clearly are at their best when they crit a lot; they're the only class in the game that can apply their weapon crit range (not multiplier, range) to touch spells channeled through the weapon. And Sword Saints get even more goodies for crits.
    Last edited by AlexDumas; 03-10-2019 at 07:50 PM.

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