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  1. #31
    I totally agree that Kingdom building needs an overhaul. I don't know what is the point of building buildings. First time I did it I was hoping that something would change in the city. But no effect. Same thing when I upgraded village to town. Nothing.

    This could be such a nice aspect if it was properly done. And I won't say anything about the constant need for loading.

  2. #32
    I'm not telling Owlcat how to do their game. They're a small studio working on their first game, problems and differences of taste will abound.

    I'm just expressing my experiences with this particular system, since they're similar to the OP's experience (and apparently also that of a lot of other players).

    I think it boils down to the system feeling arbitrary. Some projects have a listed cost, others don't. Most projects can't spend you into negative points, except the one's that don't list their BP anyway. Kingdom mood status drops when points are reducded below zero, but also for events that don't list the damage and falling into negative BP. An issue which can only be solved with an event That Costs 1,000 BP.

    To say nothing of the cost of upping your advisor skills and ranks. 14 Days of waste where you can't even get news of an energency, let alone try to deal with it. Any territory that tried to run itself this way would run itself into the ground a dozen times over. To each their own I guess, but there's no way I'd be trying this game without cheat engine.

  3. #33
    Member Textuality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by 507936689@facebook View Post
    I totally agree that Kingdom building needs an overhaul. I don't know what is the point of building buildings. First time I did it I was hoping that something would change in the city. But no effect. Same thing when I upgraded village to town. Nothing.

    This could be such a nice aspect if it was properly done. And I won't say anything about the constant need for loading.
    Yeah, I was rather disappointed when I upgraded my capital to a town and nothing changed. The merchants didn't have any new wares, no new buildings showed up, etc. Then I upgraded to a city, and thought "okay, maybe NOW stuff will change!" Nope. It's still a rather run-down looking town square with two merchants in little stalls, and nothing else of note.

    One thing I think that would REALLY help out kingdom management is untethering your main character from the projects.

    For instance, upgrading an advisor to a new rank. Takes two weeks. Fine. But why does time auto-skip forward during the upgrade? Why can my main character do NOTHING during that time? Am I just sitting there holding their hand the entire time? Teaching them how to do their job? (And if that's the case, why can't I do it for them and improve my odds?)

    Same goes for claiming a new region. Why does my main character get locked into doing nothing for two weeks? It's not as though I'm walking around out there personally planting all the "this is mine" flags on the edge of the region border, am I?

    If you could detach the PC from the upgrades, it would go a LONG way to making the kingdom less tedious and bothersome to deal with. That way you could upgrade several advisors at once without screwing yourself over by having months flash by instantly. You could start them training and then go out and adventure, start clearing out a new region, etc.

    Also, projects stack up way too much because you simply can't afford to lock an advisor into a 45-60 day project. You need them for other things! In act-4 on my current character I'm sitting on like 20 projects that haven't been started yet, because I can't afford to tie my advisors down for two months at a time. There needs to either be a larger pool of characters you can draw advisors from (surely within your barony you have SOME people who can be promoted other than your direct companions), simply so you can deal with projects. And there are times when you actually lose some of your advisors for plot reasons, and some events become completely unsolvable, because the singular advisor who could deal with it is missing. That's a serious pain.

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Yeah I've hit the Chapter 4-5 gap and the whole thing has gone off the rails.

    I have so many Projects I can't even see them anymore. I think there are like 40 of them at this point. I can't afford to ever do any of them because they take TONS of BP for no reason and/or lock me out of everything. My General is off doing an Opportunity that takes... FOREVER oh during that time a Problem comes up. He can't deal with it ever because he's locked into his Project for a month and... can't be told to deal with an emergency? What?

    I was enjoying it somewhat until this point, but not literally everything is falling apart and none of it is my fault. The whole system is arcane, confusing, frustrating and worst of all: ultimately pointless. Seriously there is nothing gained 90% of the time. I have a powerful army. That can't do anything so who cares? Literally all it is good for is for dealing with Problems and Opportunities. It's a Ouroboros of pointlessness endlessly eating it's own tail until it makes me lose.

    There is a rebeliion someplace. I can't do anything about it? I've literally taken to the field and punched enemies armies and the like, but nope not these random peasants. I can't go fight them because reasons.

    The time required for nearly every event and project is freaking INSANE. 60 days to research a curse? Why? It does nothing and locks my adviser out of anything else for 2 months! So it gets added to the pile that never stops growing. Now that pile is completely impossible to even look at . I got event to train every companion for no reason at all. Great? They're already my level, why are these here? How come I can't make them go away?

    Everything about this has become hopeless. My Kingdom is in "Riots" because... hell if I know. Literally no reason. I've been floating 750+ BP but it doesn't matter. We're rioting now. And you can't use the military to put down insurrections, because.... again no reason. Nothing bad has happened to these people in almost a year, but they're rioting in the streets. No feudal society would ever survive in this world, yet everyone is part of a feudal society. Only you can't use your army?

  5. #35
    I think, these are the changes I would wish for.

    1. Buildings either give their effects weekly, or serve as a minimum, i.e. if you have military buildings that add up to a +15 then you can never get below 15 military? But getting 15 military point income from them would probably be easier? Also what it seems like they are supposed to but apparently dont.

    2. More Advisors. But keep the advisor system as it is, there still rare-ish but not as rare and theres atleast a lawful, a good and a chaotic and an evil for each slot, who cannot die in the story after you hire them (looking at the councilor slot here). Although some might be combinations.
    But they stay individual NPCs were individual personalities/preferences and unique dialogues for the meetings and upgrade discussions.

    3. Things that require the Ruler have two options.
    A. The ruler spends time working on it, as currently.
    B. The advisor does it on their own, doesn't use up your time but it takes twice as long and/or costs in BP.
    So you can pass time with it, and get a benefit from doing it, but if you've got alot of things you don't have to spend two weeks on it?

    4. The buildings show up. Build a shop, a merchant NPC appears in that settlement when you visit it, build an Inn you can stay there, build a fort/barracks thats when the guards standing around appear (the ones who are currently already there, settlement only not capitol) and etc.
    Not merchants as good as the unique per region ones, just a generic, camping supplies and random leveled list of items or something?

    5. Rotating buildings. The two tile buildings need to be rotatable.

    6. Tool tips that explain what something does when you hover the mouse pointer over it.

    7. More Unique Buildings that you unlock through quests. Like Vordakai's Tower and the Goblin Villages, those are cool and there are many opportunities for them.

    8. Possibility of founding more villages per region. Maybe only one village per region can ever be upgraded to town, but you can build up three? unlocked by a project or maybe just buying with BP?

  6. #36
    I think the best simplest thing would be to have buildings add their boost per month rather than per week. With per week you would get runaway stat bonuses that would spiral far beyond your ability to upgrade your advisors!

    A somewhat more complicated thing, but perhaps more rewarding, would be for buildings in a settlement to have an impact on Problems and Opportunities directly. Just to spitball something quickly, imagine if buildings kept their one-time boosts, but had a secondary effect as well - Each building put one point into a 'buffer' pool that would absorb stat losses without impacting your kingdom stats. So each shop would give you 1 point of Economy stat and one point of Economy buffer. When you lose points in a region it takes points out of your buffer first, only reducing the stat itself once the buffer is gone. The buffer would replenish each month. Adjacency bonuses could factor into this, or could also offer rewards for succeeding at a problem or opportunity. This lets buildings serve a unique role as damage control and mitigation, letting your kingdom weather threats more effectively. It would also add an element of 'realism' in the sense that a kingdom heavily invested in military infrastructure is going to be harder to threaten militarily while an economic powerhouse can more easily blow off economic threats.

  7. #37
    like the sticks and billboards do?

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by evelynstarshine View Post
    like the sticks and billboards do?
    Playing NG on both noteworthy playthroughs, I don't actually know what either of those buildings do!

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by BobTheBard View Post
    Playing NG on both noteworthy playthroughs, I don't actually know what either of those buildings do!

    +1 to solving cards using the warden? or something like that

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    I agree with OP, and things are just different enough that you can't just go look at the Pathfinder SRD rules on Kingdom stuff and easily just use that. It does kind of feel a true 'tutorial' for the management stuff is missing and would have otherwise made things easier.

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