Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Help questions

  1. #1

    Help questions

    I am a vetern of crpgs - I have played them for decades. I typically have no problem with a game on standard difficulty and sometimes turn up the difficulty. I am having some difficulties in Kingmaker, and I think it probably has to do with me superimposing playstyles/perceptions that are typically effective in other games.

    I have started over after hitting level 4 and struggling at the Stag Lord's fort. I have read some guides and pulled out my Pathfinder rulebook that I forgot I had and have cleared up some things, but some questions remain.

    These questions are written referencing my first game:

    I chose many crowd control spells like Sleep, Hypnotize, etc. but they don't seem to be very effective - everyone saves against them. Do I need to pair these with another spell to lower their save chance?

    Early on I used the priest character's spells to improve my chance to hit and this seemed to work. After I picked up a full party and leveled I didn't seem to have this issue as much and stopped using him. In more difficult fights I seem to have trouble hitting again. Is this a technique that needs to be used throughout the game?

    Magic is available to many classes and the spells don't seem to be specialized - meaning many (or all?) of the same spells are available to multiple classes/characters. Is this accurate?

    I didn't know whether to level Octavia as a Wizard or Rogue, and I don't feel like I understand enough to multiclass successfully. I chose Wizard, because Bard seemed like it could handle many of the secondary skills that a traditional Rogue would handle. However if my above observations about magic are accurate, then it seems like Wizard is somewhat less important than in other games?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Katchelina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    992
    Some spells, such as sleep, only work for creatures of a certian HD(hit die) or lower. If it's a character with classes and no hit die from their race, like the player characters, their hit die tends to be equal to their level. So once you reach a certain level, spells with a hit die limit can lose their usefulness

  3. #3
    I apologize in advance if I come across as patronizing, I don't mean it. I'm just very thorough. If you have any further questions, please ask!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    I chose many crowd control spells like Sleep, Hypnotize, etc. but they don't seem to be very effective - everyone saves against them. Do I need to pair these with another spell to lower their save chance?
    As the person above me explained, they stop being effective past a certain HD, but there's more to it than that. You may also have a low DC for that spell that means the enemy is more likely to save. DC is calculated (as you might know) as 10 base + the spell's level + the caster's stat mod (which stat depends on which class - Wis for clerics, rangers, druids, paladins, and inquisitors, Int for wizards, alchemists, and magi, Charisma for sorcerers and bards) + any bonus that might be given by feats or equipment. If you plan on using a lot of crowd control spells you will probably want to pick up an appropriate Spell Focus to make enemies less likely to save. Also note that the higher the difficulty the higher an enemy's stats are, which means they're more likely to save overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    Early on I used the priest character's spells to improve my chance to hit and this seemed to work. After I picked up a full party and leveled I didn't seem to have this issue as much and stopped using him. In more difficult fights I seem to have trouble hitting again. Is this a technique that needs to be used throughout the game?
    This remains effective for most of the game when dealing with high-AC targets. Properly buffing your party is probably half of any Pathfinder battle, and you will have to know which buffs you should be using on who and at what point to truly get the most out of your party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    Magic is available to many classes and the spells don't seem to be specialized - meaning many (or all?) of the same spells are available to multiple classes/characters. Is this accurate?
    Each class has their own spell lists, but a great many of those spells fall into two categories - Arcane spells (Wizard, sorc, alchemist, bard, magus) and Divine spells (Cleric, druid, ranger, inquisitor, paladin). Arcane and Divine spells have little overlap between each other, but their respective classes often have a good deal of overlap. Note that 'full casters' (Wiz, Sorc, Cleric, Druid) have access to 9 levels of spells while 'half casters' (Magus, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Bard) only have access to 6 and Ranger and Paladin only have access to 4 (I think). Also note that the two full arcane casters (Wizard and Sorc) have access to the exact same spell list, but while sorcerers can cast any spell they know whenever they want up to their daily limit for that spell level, wizards need to prepare theirs in advance and learn new spells from scrolls. So a sorcerer can cast fewer spells more often and with more versatility, but a wizard knows more spells and can change which spells they have available when they rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    I didn't know whether to level Octavia as a Wizard or Rogue, and I don't feel like I understand enough to multiclass successfully. I chose Wizard, because Bard seemed like it could handle many of the secondary skills that a traditional Rogue would handle. However if my above observations about magic are accurate, then it seems like Wizard is somewhat less important than in other games
    Octavia is actually set up to level towards a prestige class called Arcane Trickster, which gives her both wizard and rogue benefits. To do this she needs to be able to cast second-level arcane spells (3 levels of Wizard is the minimum) and needs to have 2d6 sneak attack damage (Either 3 levels in Rogue, or 1 level of Rogue with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, will qualify. The latter is more popular). This lets her combine the best aspects of both classes and makes her a highly desirable party member if your main character isn't an arcane spellcaster.

    As for the importance of spellcasters, they don't seem important early on but they become essential later when they become capable of casting a wide variety of powerful spells many times a fight. Pathfinder is, after all, a derivative of the game that codified the trope 'linear warriors, quadratic wizards.' Your fighter types will carry the party for a bit and will never truly become obsolete, but at higher levels expect your casters to be carrying a lot of the weight when it comes to killing stubborn, annoying things like bosses.
    Last edited by BobTheBard; 10-20-2018 at 12:19 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Earth. Or so I was told.
    Posts
    701
    Hello, and welcome to these forums.

    I will answer what I can, but know that there are several possible strategies possible, and other will answer differently, with possible beter results than mine.

    In my experience from pnp and from video games, spells that do nothing in case of a successful save are less effective. The D20 system is geared towards more or less 50/50 chance of success against foes your level when you're not optimized, which is ok on a sword fight that you can do round after round, but is not OK when you have only a few spells to use. It means that you will be useless very often. Moreover, this game tends to increase your foes' stats, so it makes such spells even more difficult to use effectively.

    However, such spells can also save your life since they can eliminate large parties in a few seconds. So there are two ways to use spells effectively, it's either to avoid spells that allow for saves, OR make those saves more difficult to succeed, and that's by feats like Spell Focus, some items to improve your spell ability (INT for Wizards and Magi, CHA for Bards and Sorcerers, etc.), some class abilities, etc.

    Bless, Prayer, the Bard's Inspire Courage and such buff spells are always useful, especially in big fights. Don't waste them on mobs, but don't hesitate to use them against in hard combats, at all levels. A +1 is not much, but can sometimes make a big difference. Try to check the kind of bonus the different spells use. Most bonus of the same type don't stack, but different bonus types do, (for instance, +1 Morale bonus and +1 Luck bonus stack to make a +2. However, a +1 Morale and a +2 Morale result in only a +2 total, the best prevails).

    I noticed that with the D20 system, more and more spells tend to be in many lists. It has always been the case in D&D of all editions, and Pathfinder did not change that, but the D20 system went further down that path in my opinion, with Clerics spells having more and more damaging spells, and Wizards having more buffing spells, and sometimes even healing spells of some kind. The multiplication of classes helped blurring the lines as well.
    So yes, a lot of spells are on the lists of many classes at the same time.

    Depends on whether you want her more as a Rogue or a Wizard. Depend on your character. Myself, since I don't play a caster in my first playthrough, I only levelled her up as a Wizard, took the Accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat, and became an Arcane Trickster (a Prestige Class, like a Rogue/Wizard, she's geared towards it anyway) as soon as I could, at level 6, so that she progresses like a Wizard (but with no school specialty powers except the bonus spell and opposite school) and like a Rogue (although she will lack some of the Rogue's abilities) at the same time. She's been very useful and will soon become awesome in my opinion (I'm level 8 with that party).

    As for the Stag Lord, I suggest you finish all the mission you can if you have time, it's easier when you're level five. You also should get all the help you can get in his camp.

  5. #5
    Thank you for all the great information! And not patronizing at all. I appreciate the detail.

    I have another question about spells like Protection from Evil. How do you know what the enemy's alignment is? I thought maybe you could assume it is evil, but the dwarf (Harrim?) has a Protection from Law spell I think, so that makes me think that you need to target specific enemies with specific protections.

  6. #6
    Unfortunately, when it comes to alignments there's no real way to tell without looking it up in the Monster Manual. You kind've have to guess. There are a few very rough guidelines - Fey tend to be Chaotic, Undead, Goblins, and Trolls are nearly always Evil, etc, but there's no reliable way to tell for sure.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    152
    Octavia:
    for me, she started at third level with 1 rogue level and 2 wizard levels.
    I know the pen and paper game, so I checked the available classes and found Arcane trickster.
    So I leveled her as a wizard, taking the feat Precise strike, that add 1d6 of sneak damage. 4 points in Trickery, Mobility and Knowledge Arcana and she was able to become an Arcane trickster.

    That way she increases her wizard abilities without losing spellcasting levels and increases her rogue abilities.

    She loses some feature from both classes, but she gains some alternate feature.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Karpophorus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    Thank you for all the great information! And not patronizing at all. I appreciate the detail.

    I have another question about spells like Protection from Evil. How do you know what the enemy's alignment is? I thought maybe you could assume it is evil, but the dwarf (Harrim?) has a Protection from Law spell I think, so that makes me think that you need to target specific enemies with specific protections.
    As a rule of thumb, pretty much every enemy is evil.

    Undead are evil. Bandits either chaotic or evil, Elementals and wild beasts should be neutral, evil fey, you guess it, Paladins have to be lawful... and when in doubt, just check for monster stats on this site:


    https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/

  9. #9
    Senior Member Karpophorus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    146
    One more thing about spells... If you want to get the most out of spell slots mainly choose spells which don‘t target single oponents. Not only because of 50:50 chance but because later, when enemies with spell resistance appear (something like AC towards spells, only harder to overcome) these spells become pretty useless.
    That doesn’t mean you should avoid save or suck spells, but if you have, let’s say a decent buff spell in the same grade, you should consider choosing this over the other.

    Choose summoning monsters over blast and direct damage spells. Even without the feats improved and augmented summoning, these spells can turn a sure loss into a narrow victory. And summon many over few or one.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Triordinant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    The Dark Side of the Moon
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynott View Post
    How do you know what the enemy's alignment is? I thought maybe you could assume it is evil, but the dwarf (Harrim?) has a Protection from Law spell I think, so that makes me think that you need to target specific enemies with specific protections.
    Ideally the Bestiary chapter of the in-game Encyclopedia should update its monster information as you fight the same kind of monster more often (as it does in Pillars of Eternity) and I remember reading somewhere that was the intent of the developers. In the meantime, there are some generalities:

    1. Undead are Evil so spells like Protection from Evil and Holy Aura will defend against them and spells like Searing Light do more damage against them than non-Evil creatures. They're immune to Sleep and all mind-affecting spells like Color Spray, Bane and Scare. They're also immune to poison, disease, paralysis, stunning, fatigue and exhaustion (which is why Jaethal never tires). Healing spells damage them and Inflict spells heal them. Magic weapons with the Disruption special ability can be deadly to them.

    2. Fey are almost always Chaotic so spells like Protection from Chaos and Shield of Law will defend against them. AFAIK they all have Damage Reduction vs. weapons that aren't made of Cold Iron (even lowly Mites have DR 2/cold iron).

    3. Demons are Chaotic Evil so Protection from Evil or Chaos and Holy Aura or Shield of Law will defend against them. Note: defenses vs. evil and defenses vs. chaos do NOT stack; only the highest defense counts. Demons have Damage Reduction against weapons that aren't cold iron or good-aligned (Holy weapons). The most powerful demons have Damage Reduction that can only be overcome by weapons that are BOTH cold iron and good-aligned. Spells like Bless Weapon (from a paladin or a cleric or inquisitor with the Glory domain) and Align Weapon (cleric or inquisitor) can make a weapon temporarily good-aligned.

    4. Devils are Lawful Evil so Protection from Evil or Law and Holy Aura or Cloak of Chaos will defend against them. Note: defenses vs. evil and defenses vs. law do NOT stack; only the highest defense counts. Devils have Damage Reduction against weapons that aren't silver or good-aligned (Holy weapons). The most powerful devils have Damage Reduction that can only be overcome by weapons that are BOTH silver and good-aligned. Spells like Bless Weapon (from a paladin or a cleric or inquisitor with the Glory domain) and Align Weapon (cleric or inquisitor) can make a weapon temporarily good-aligned. Devils are also completely immune to fire so spells like Burning Hands, Scorching Ray or Fireball will do zero damage.

    5. Plant creatures tend to be Neutral or have the word "neutral" in their alignment. They're immune to mind-affecting spells, poison, paralysis, polymorph and sleep effects. Some (like Treants) are vulnerable to fire, others (like Shambling Mounds) are resistant to fire (Shambling Mounds are also immune to electrical damage).

    6. Black, White and Red Dragons are Chaotic Evil. Blue and Green Dragons are Lawful Evil. Brass and Copper Dragons are Chaotic Good. Gold, Silver and Bronze Dragons are Lawful Good. All are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. They are immune to the damage type of their breath weapon so Black and Green Dragons are immune to acid, Red Dragons are immune to fire, White Dragons are immune to cold, Blue Dragons are immune to electricity, etc. Linnorms are related to dragons and almost all are Chaotic Evil.

    7. Holy weapons have a +2 bonus to hit Evil creatures and do an extra 2d6 points of damage against them. Axiomatic weapons do the same vs. Chaotic creatures, as do Anarchic weapons vs. Lawful creatures and Unholy weapons vs. Good creatures.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •