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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    All right, maybe we have gone on about this all wrong.
    Are you familiar with Pathfinder at all ? With the way the AC, BAB, armour and weapon proficiencies, different saves, etc. work ? Pathfinder is not like most modern, easy-to-use, video games. It is a complex system made for pen and paper RPGs, and one of the most complex at that. It is quite tactical, with many subtleties that can mess your tactics if you're not aware of them and your opponent is (assume the computer is aware of them).

    If not, you should take a look at this :
    and at this : although I think this one is less useful.

    Edit : another one that seems nice enough :
    Thanks for pointing this out.

    Excerpts from the beginner's guide:

    "The game suffers from balancing issues..."

    Yes, that is abundantly clear. Of course the game will suffer from balancing issues when half the party can do little more than carry luggage.
    I'd say it's poor game design if there's only 3 useful spells out of, say 20, and if you don't select one of them you are going to be rubbish. Especially when you don't know which those 3 spells are. In the end everyone is going to use those 3 spells and the other 17 will never be used. It's like having only 3 useful weapons. Sorry, you selected sword, you're going to be useless for 10 levels because you didn't select a war hammer, pike or axe. But when you reach level 10 you will get this über-axe that will do massive amounts of damage. Too bad you put all your weapon focus into swords and spears... Or, you should have selected "war hammer +1", that's a good weapon, not a sword...

    "Pathfinder Kingmaker is extremely challenging [on higher difficulties] to the point that is just downright unfair sometimes."
    You can remove "on higher difficulties" from that sentence.

    "Saving the game as often as possible goes without saying."
    That is correct. After every step, hit F5. Then hit F8 when everything goes south...

    "Choosing a pre-made character is not a bad idea..." yes, I can see why, because they know which the 3 useful spells are.

    It's a pitty, I was really looking forward to this game, but now all I seem to do is enter fight, then hit F8. Or if I happen to win, then rest. There's a lot of resting going on, mostly from fatigue, but also after every fight. The 86 day time limit is going to be hard to keep with all the resting required...
    Not really my cup of tea.
    Last edited by; 11-12-2018 at 03:53 PM.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Can you tell us more about your char, your party and your spells ?

    The game is not as unforgiving as you may think. The choice you made at

    I agree with you that too many spell are weak compared to the really useful ones. But I think you exaggerate a little the situation, it's not 17 out of 20 useless spells.

    here are the lv 1 spells

    Protection from Alignment : Not bad, to cast on your tank before the fights, need to know the alignment of the enemies
    Shield : Not bad, but not interesting at start.
    Stunning Barrier : bad


    Corrosive Touch : Bad for a sorcerer, good for a magus
    Mage Armor : good
    Snowball : Not bad, decent damage spell
    Summon Monster I : Good, but at low level, it don't last long enough


    True Strike : Not for a sorcerer


    Hypnotism : not really good
    Sleep : great at low level


    Burning Hands : not bad, decent zone attack spell.
    Ear-piercing Scream : not good, to little damage and the control is to short
    Flare Burst : not bad, decent zone debuff
    Magic Missile : good, decent damage spell, very reliable
    Shocking Grasp : Bad for a sorcerer, good for a magus


    Color Spray : Good at low level, very efficient control spell
    Vanish : Good for saving yourself if you get attacked


    Cause Fear : Good at low level, very efficient control spell at low level
    Ray of Enfeeblement : Not good enough, ranged touch attack + fortitude save is a little too much.
    Ray of Sickening : Not good enough, ranged touch attack + fortitude save is a little too much.


    Enlarge Person : Great, make your strenght based warrior more powerfull
    Expeditious Retreat : not good, vanish is a better spell if you want to leave a melee
    Hurricane Bow : Not for a sorcerer
    Reduce Person : the equivalent of enlarge person for dex based build
    Stone Fist : Not good
    Touch of Gracelessness : Not good

  3. #43
    Yes I'm exaggerating, I have no idea how many spells there are and which are useful. But why not make more of them useful? Instead of everyone always selecting sleep (because it's the "only" good spell) make the other weak spells good. Then you have more to choose from and you don't have to find out after 5 hours of playing that it's going to be a pain in the ass to reach any level above 1 because the spells you chose are useless. Why even bother with the other spells when no one is going to use them?

    Right now the party is Valarie, Amiri, Linzi and the unmighty sorcerer. The sorcerer has sleep and magic missile.

  4. #44
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Earth. Or so I was told.
    They are useful in some situations, not in all of them. Sorcerers have the same list as Wizards, but Wizards can learn ALL spells if they wish (and find scrolls), so even the very situational spells can be useful for them to know. In Pnp, where the range of possible situations a party can run into are very diverse, the wealth of choice make Wizards great utility casters.
    Sorcerers have a very limited number of spells they know, so they must make the most of them. And since the video game did not implement the possibility for them to swap lower-level spells when they level up, you are stuck with all your choices.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Ok, how much charisma have your sorcerer ? If you have enough (at least 16, ideally 19), then sleep should be powerfull enough to work most of the time (if you do not play at very high difficulty.). And if your targets are asleep, they are as good as dead. If you have enough charisma, your sorcerer is powerful, if you play it well.

    Many spell are not good, but just ok. Because not every player of pathfinder want to make an optimised spellcaster. It's not the job of the kingmaker dev to balance the spells. As we told you, caster are kind of overpowered after lv 6, if the right spells are chosen. Many player in pnp like to self nerf by using non optimal spells.

    I think most of the baker wanted the game to be as close to pnp as possible.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Karpophorus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Somewhere I read that the Devs are planning to include the spell Grease. If it is only half as good as in PnP it will be so good!

    Here are some more tips:

    Mainly target Fortitude depending spells on enemy arcane spell casters and rogues. (Example: Ear Piercing Scream/ Snowball, Bone Shaker)
    Mainly target Will depending spells on enemy fighters and rogues (Example: Hideous Laughter, Sleep)
    Mainly target Reflex depending spells on enemy arcane & divine spell casters & fighters (Example: Burning Hands, Web)

    Reason: In general most classes (enemies included) only have one good saving throw (base value) and a high attribute value to support it. The other two saving throws are way behind the strong, well... at least one of the two. Check the saves of your sorcerer, you'll see what I mean.

  7. #47
    Hi folks,
    As much as I find the conversation about the sorcerer spells very interesting, I think it is - maybe - a bit out of place in this thread.

    Could we please focus on what the thread is about (i.e. UX improvements suggestions, for devs to look at)

    Maybe the posts about the sorcerer spells deserve to be moved to their own thread, so we can more easily chat on both topics, and keep this one readable for the devs.


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