View Poll Results: Are race or class specefic dialogue important to you

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  • yes very

    10 38.46%
  • yes

    14 53.85%
  • no

    1 3.85%
  • no i hate it

    0 0%
  • I do not care

    1 3.85%
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Results 11 to 18 of 18
  1. #11
    I'd like to see 1-2 reactions for each class, but just 1 or 2 and when they have an impact.

    I feel like Pillars of Eternity Deadfire went for quantity over quality when it comes to reactions most class specific options were far less interesting to pick compared to most other choices and it's is especially true when playing a multiclassed Cipher. Also some classes and subclasses got completely screwed by having 2-3 reactions at best.

    I remeber there was a great reaction in the White March DLC, during the Bleak Oath questline. Being a Bleak Walker opens up multiple endings to the quest and it felt great having so many options to choose from thanks to my class. Those should be the reactions, imo, not the "X looks nervous in your presence" that we ended up having in Deadfire.

  2. #12
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    To me, having reactions to anything is good. It means the world is alive and that what you do and are has an influence on your surrounding. So, reactions are expected to :

    - your sex.
    - your race.
    - your actions (that your interlocutor is aware of, obviously).
    - what you have said (that your interlocutor is aware of, obviously).
    - your reputation (linked to the two previous ones)
    - what you look like.

    Your class does not necessarily appear in this list, because your class is not necessarily obvious. Especially for multi-class characters. Most games that have NPCs react to class react to your first class, but what if you're A Fighter 1/Wizard 19 ? Wouldn't that be illogical to treat you as a Fighter ? They could react to your highest class, but a high-level Rogue focused on deception, with some level of Wizard for illusion spells might not be so obvious for most NPCs to guess that he is a Rogue. That would work for the race as well, actually.

    If you wear an ugly, intimidating piece of armour, or a very wicked-looking weapon, there should be reactions to that as well. Same if you carry some extraordinary armour of Heavens.

    So yes, NPCs should react to what they know about you. It is somewhat important for immersion. And they should react depending on their personnality and personal objectives.
    Last edited by No One of Consequence; 01-20-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  3. #13
    I am more interested in meaningful different outcomes, not just "oh they now say X instead of Y, but it doesn't change anything".
    e.g. if you are Dwarf, Harrim says something about this if you ask him about Dwarves, but it doesn't change anything in the end.
    Likewise, with all the events around Harrim and "Dwarfness" and the Dwarven Clans, it doesn't seem to matter if you are Dwarf (or Torag groupie).
    I had the idea if I was a Dwarf I would be refounding Dwarf-centric kingdom (non-Torag focus), but game doesn't do this even when Dwarves are in plot.
    It seems normal for there to be romantic interests for all the races, as another example.
    Similarly there is issues around your Deity not seeming to impact plot lines directly related to it. Ideally ALL Deities should have plot lines re: them,
    and Dieties in the plot should have special effect if you worship them AND if you worship "enemy" of them (or ally of them).

    I see requests here for more races, classes, but IMHO that is exactly the wrong direction, that doesn't make the game funner for me
    to (re)play just because a character has somewhat different class abilities, but all the major plot events are basically the same.
    I feel like there should be more variant plot-lines that tie into character ID, but also just more variant plot-lines PERIOD that make
    game more engaging, especially for anybody who wants to replay it, which IMHO will give Owlcat alot better "word of mouth" PR.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Quandary View Post
    I am more interested in meaningful different outcomes, not just "oh they now say X instead of Y, but it doesn't change anything".
    e.g. if you are Dwarf, Harrim says something about this if you ask him about Dwarves, but it doesn't change anything in the end.
    Likewise, with all the events around Harrim and "Dwarfness" and the Dwarven Clans, it doesn't seem to matter if you are Dwarf (or Torag groupie).
    I had the idea if I was a Dwarf I would be refounding Dwarf-centric kingdom (non-Torag focus), but game doesn't do this even when Dwarves are in plot.
    It seems normal for there to be romantic interests for all the races, as another example.
    Similarly there is issues around your Deity not seeming to impact plot lines directly related to it. Ideally ALL Deities should have plot lines re: them,
    and Dieties in the plot should have special effect if you worship them AND if you worship "enemy" of them (or ally of them).

    I see requests here for more races, classes, but IMHO that is exactly the wrong direction, that doesn't make the game funner for me
    to (re)play just because a character has somewhat different class abilities, but all the major plot events are basically the same.
    I feel like there should be more variant plot-lines that tie into character ID, but also just more variant plot-lines PERIOD that make
    game more engaging, especially for anybody who wants to replay it, which IMHO will give Owlcat alot better "word of mouth" PR.
    What you are asking for is impossible since it would require the dev to write entirely different stories/dialogues for the differemt races.

  5. #15
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    It's not impossible per se, but it's a lot (probably too much) to ask a small company that has to use kickstarting to fund their game.

    Bioware did something like that with Dragon Age; but there were only six Origins, each with a few plots or reactions to them, and only one of them that had a very significant outcome (non-mage human, which could become king/queen). Many other games actually did something like it, so it's really not impossible.
    However, it takes a lot of times and ressources in a game, so what is given to doing that is taken away from other possibilities. Most often, it restricts the possibility of having different things to react to, so mainly, it would restrict the choices of classes and races for character creation. That's the most obvious choice.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    It's not impossible per se, but it's a lot (probably too much) to ask a small company that has to use kickstarting to fund their game.

    Bioware did something like that with Dragon Age; but there were only six Origins, each with a few plots or reactions to them, and only one of them that had a very significant outcome (non-mage human, which could become king/queen). Many other games actually did something like it, so it's really not impossible.
    However, it takes a lot of times and ressources in a game, so what is given to doing that is taken away from other possibilities. Most often, it restricts the possibility of having different things to react to, so mainly, it would restrict the choices of classes and races for character creation. That's the most obvious choice.
    DAO never went as far as you described in your post. DAO was pretty good in that regard probably, better than any other but the main plot was wasn't really effected by your race.
    As you said Dragon Age Origins was a AAA game that was in development for ~5years. Kingmaker was made by about 40 people in 2 years.
    Last edited by Blood Dragon95; 01-20-2019 at 09:40 PM.

  7. #17
    Well maybe I should have made clear I don't expect main plot to be significantly changed (more than at most word substitutions akin to King/Queen).
    Stuff like Deities I see connections to Enemy/Ally Deities as important in making most of given side-plot, that can share elements to certain extent.
    IMHO this would be very much DLC appropriate, even a mechanic for ALL characters to indicate Deity focus even if they are not a Cleric etc.
    (that seems like appropriate mechanic to reserve for DLC, while actual Clerics' Deities could have plot impact regardless of purchasing DLC)

  8. #18
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    I reaaaaally agree with this, It's king of bumming me out that my halfling fighter is being ignored by linzy but has a romance potential with a human (valerie) and a half-elf (octavia)

    after reading a bit of the other post, I felt like I should be a bit more precise with what I expected when I participated in this particular survey xD

    plotwise I don't expect any changes, or any major changes. Expect for maybe certain character that are racists towards a particular race (like a human suprematist who look down upon half-orcs and half-elves) and thus you wouldn't have access to him as an advisor (provided that there are more than 3 choices per advisors positions), but no further than that.

    it would be more like a reaction to your races at certain dialogues, like I know that there would be humans who wouldnt mind dating a halfling, but for Valerie I think itd be weird to be interested to my tiny halfling (even though statwise he is stronger than her lol)

    for a roleplaying game i think it's weird that nobody reacts to your race. Certain spellcasters could be relunctant to talk about magic to a fighter with 9 INT, or having a rowdy fighter laughs at the weak body of a wizard with 9 STR. I know that mechanically it would requires a huge workload for mostly ''flavors'' while right now there is a much greater need for balance adjustements, it's just a thought.

    Imo, I wouldn't mind participating in a second kickstarter for helping out a bit. Is there even a place where we could donate?
    Last edited by Patriarche; 01-25-2019 at 02:44 PM.

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