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  1. #21
    Senior Member Grifta's Avatar
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    Oh, my assertion from that was that it took the 200 XP and divided by the number of possible party members (200/5=40) because, as I understand it, all party members in the active party and at the keep get XP.

    Sorry, it's just a significant stretch to take a post with 4 images where 2 say 20xp, and 2 say 40xp, and claim that this means that xp for monsters is significantly reduced. All this shows is that it's somewhere between 1/10th and full xp for kills depending on the context of that information.
    Last edited by Grifta; 10-24-2017 at 03:56 PM. Reason: *possible

  2. #22
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    Replacing one of the Tricky Spells with an ability to cast in light armor sounds like a good idea, we will give it a thought. But I think that making all spells silent and still is a bit of a stretch – that might lead to some very non-Trickster builds, for example, builds with Heavy Armor and a Tower Shield.

    About replacing features and so on – one of my main considerations here is whether this will affect the ability of players to transfer their builds from tabletop to this game, and I thought that loss of tricky spells would not do much to limit that. While I can imagine a build that relies on this feature a lot, that would be quite a challenge in itself and would lead to a very strange Arcane Trickster.

    Changes to Impromptu Sneak Attack were mostly based on how Arcane Trickster uses sneak attacks – rarely for attacks and mostly for spells. If someone will use it to perform a full attack with an arcane trickster – I have no specific intention to limit them there. They could have probably done it with Greater Invisibility or Invisible Thief anyway.

    The number of encounters was increased for sure – that just happens with most translations from pen and paper to PC. In CRPG you may have several fights with wolves and bandits while going through the forest – let’s say two fights with wolves and three fights with bandits - and this will take you about 30 minutes. But if that amount of fights were to happen on the table – that would have taken a whole game session, about 6 hours to play, and you would probably spend more than 30 minutes mentioned above just rolling your initiative. Combat in CRPG tends to be much faster.

    The experience for mobs was also reduced to compensate for the increased amount of encounters, but that’s far from enough to make it insignificant – I would say that you still get more XP from mobs than from quests and challenges unless you specifically try to avoid combat.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Pathfinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    The experience for mobs was also reduced to compensate for the increased amount of encounters, but that’s far from enough to make it insignificant – I would say that you still get more XP from mobs than from quests and challenges unless you specifically try to avoid combat.
    I personally like slow progress (ok, maybe fact that in our Birthright campaign I have level 6 character and we have been playing it way over 20 year.. ..lately not even once a year but still. Start it with AD&D 2:nd edition, then D&D 3.5 and now Pathfinder) and one of the biggest reason why I loved so much Baldur's Gate game was: it was and is HUGE game. But you are around level 6-8 or so (do you multiclass and so on) when game end. True it is trilogy but still..

    So slow progess is OK for me. If game should last around 80-120 hour or so I am more then happy if most of the time I am low level instead of being level 20 and just trying to get more "loot and magic items"

    Edit: BTW in Pathfinder you can choose from 3 (if I remember right) way to get XP, slow, normal and fast pace. Is it possible to see something like that in this game? Naturally you DO get level 20 at the end (or game would be extremely hard if not impossible to play at the end)
    Last edited by Pathfinder; 10-28-2017 at 09:35 AM.
    "Road to the man's heart go through the chest"

  4. #24
    Senior Member Grifta's Avatar
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    Kingmaker goes from 1 to 16-17 like most / all Paizo Adventure Paths. Finishing at level 20 is usually reserved for post-campaign addons, like the extra chapter that was funded here. I assume, and hope, that they are sticking to that here. Pathfinder's XP system is also designed to make grinding lower level enemies incredibly unprofitable, so hopefully that won't be a problem. As for the progression tracks, all that really does in the long run is make the characters +1 or -1 level from Medium

    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    But I think that making all spells silent and still is a bit of a stretch – that might lead to some very non-Trickster builds, for example, builds with Heavy Armor and a Tower Shield.
    Definitely, please avoid the all spells silent/still option as it would be crazy overpowered as a replacement. Thank you for considering the no failure in light armor option. I really think that it's going to be as close to the P&P ability that you can get here.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Nothing View Post
    But I think that making all spells silent and still is a bit of a stretch – that might lead to some very non-Trickster builds, for example, builds with Heavy Armor and a Tower Shield.
    Ah, what I meant when I said Silent and Still Spell was just to give the character the feats for free (Presumably at different levels) and then treat those feats like you would normally, not to automatically silence and Still all spells. That's insane.

  6. #26
    Senior Member HenriHakl's Avatar
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    @Perpetual Nothing

    How do you keep an eye on class changes like this, while considering archetypes for the class? An arcane trickster (probably?) doesn't have archetypes since it is a prestige class - but for normal classes when you fold a class ability into another ability then the value of that ability changes for the purpose of balance. In isolation that is balanced for the class by itself; but archetypes that replace specific abilities sometimes do so to maintain a particular overall balance - but if the replaced abilities are more/less valuable than the archetype assumes then it can have knock-on effects.

    Maybe that is overly pedantic thinking. Pathfinder isn't really a game of perfect balance. There is little to compare in terms of power level between high level wizards vs high level fighters. Still, I imagine that some thoughts should be spared for balance consideration regardless.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Yesterday's Hero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenriHakl View Post
    @Perpetual Nothing

    How do you keep an eye on class changes like this, while considering archetypes for the class? An arcane trickster (probably?) doesn't have archetypes since it is a prestige class - but for normal classes when you fold a class ability into another ability then the value of that ability changes for the purpose of balance. In isolation that is balanced for the class by itself; but archetypes that replace specific abilities sometimes do so to maintain a particular overall balance - but if the replaced abilities are more/less valuable than the archetype assumes then it can have knock-on effects.

    Maybe that is overly pedantic thinking. Pathfinder isn't really a game of perfect balance. There is little to compare in terms of power level between high level wizards vs high level fighters. Still, I imagine that some thoughts should be spared for balance consideration regardless.
    Since you can multiclass however you want in Pathfinder, I assume that when you make a replacement such as this the new feature must be on the same power level as the one you are taking out. The "mix-and match" multiclassing makes fine-tuned balance logistically very taxing. The best aproach (I assume) is just playtesting, making adjustments, getting feedback and hoping for the best.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    Mark of Justice sounds a lot better than my first thought of what to call it (Smitey McSmitestrikes). I approve of calling it Mark of Justice.

    I hope you do implement another type of Paladin Bond. while I don't actually know about any Paladins that took Mount Bond outside of that one Archetype that gives you a flying mount and turns you into an Angel, that choice was a pretty cool one, and I do know of people who have taken the healing bond and other kinds of alternate divine bonds.

    I'm sort of surprised that you didn't change out Tricky spells for either an ability like the Magus' or Bards which gives a 0% arcane spell fail penalty in Light armor, or free Silent and Still spell metamagics. That's what I was sort of assuming would happen.
    I second these comments.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Grifta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenriHakl View Post
    There is little to compare in terms of power level between high level wizards vs high level fighters.
    You're right, once the Fighter teleports directly next to the Wizard in the first round, then the fight it pretty pointless. Fighters are too OP ;P

  10. #30
    Senior Member HenriHakl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grifta View Post
    You're right, once the Fighter teleports directly next to the Wizard in the first round, then the fight it pretty pointless. Fighters are too OP ;P
    What? Were the contingency kicks in and the fighter fails his Will save vs domination?

    (Don't get me wrong, I essentially never play casters (monks is where its at, yo), but those high-level spells are pretty bullshit from a balance stand-point.)

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