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  1. #1
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Things we Know about The Sequel to Pathfinder: Kingmaker

    Okay, so there are two publicly available projects coming down the pipe from Owlcat. This is where I'm hoping to centralize information about them.

    They are in no particular order: Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous And Pathfinder: Kingmaker Console Ports.

    So let's Discuss!

    EDITED: Added More Info about Pathfinder 2.

    ________________________


    ________________________

    Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

    * The sequel is officially Announced. It is Wrath of the Righteous.
    * Given Oleg's discussion of Kickstarter at Big Deal, it is likely that there will be another Kickstarter. It took half a year to go from absolute nothing to a vertical slice in Kingmaker's dev cycle. And another half a year to go from there to Kickstarter readiness. And then around half a year to get from there to Alpha 1. and 10 months in alpha to get to Beta. and 2 months to go from Beta to Full game. It seems likely, given that timeline, that we will get a Kickstarter soon; though no official word has been stated on this subject.
    * Owlcat is now an Independent Studio, but received a $1 Mil investment from My.com to make the game.
    * The official Website allows you to Sign up for a Mailing List and Get a Free digital Copy of the Kingmaker Artbook



    So what do we know about Pathfinder: Wrath of The Righteous, the Computer Game?

    The Overall Game:

    * Wrath will be based off the same First Edition rules as Kingmaker, This will include Mythic Rules, though they seem to have been reworked a bit.
    * The game will be on an Updated version of the Unity Engine, and Owlcat has cleared up a lot of technical debt, so it should be easier to program, with less bugs. It is my understanding that this new ease of programming should help carry over to the modding scene.
    * No release Date has been Disclosed, but it seems likely that it's not coming out until 2020, at least.

    The Source Material:

    Wrath of the Righteous is an Adventure Path where the central Premise is that a Demon Lord is slowly invading the World of Golarion (the same world as Kingmaker) and is trying to make Golarion part of their Realm in the Abyss. Several Crusades have been launched to stop this, they all failed. Now, It's your turn, and if you don't succeed this time? The world is doomed. To Succeed, you need to lead a Crusade, murder a Demon Lord, and Close the Portal to the Abyss. Something happens early on, that gives you "Mythic Power" a Power way beyond that of your standard adventurer that lets you "Break the rules" of normal Pathfinder in specific fun ways. Of course, you aren't the only one with Mythic Power. Your Enemies have it too.

    The Hook:

    There are a couple of Possible Hooks for Wrath. The First and most obvious is Mythic Power. Mythic Power is a system with very loud Proponents and detractors in Tabletop, but the main gripe with it is that it's hard for a GM to balance properly, and it's really hard to run on tabletop. Neither should be an issue for a Computer RPG where the program manages your problems.

    The second Possible Hook is Mass Combat. Mass Combat Appears in a total of 3 APs. It was Introduced in Kingmaker, It shows up in Wrath, and it shows up in Ironfang Invasion. Given that Mass Combat was one of the Goals that Owlcat Wanted to reach with Kingmaker? I'd lay good money down that we'll be seeing Mass Combat in Wrath.

    Finally, Since the underlying engine is the same (if updated), it seems likely that we'll be seeing more of the Kingdom Building system. In Wrath you need to lead a Crusade. It probably wouldn't take all that much effort to adapt the kingdom management system to a "Crusade Management System."

    As yet only Mythic Power has been confirmed. It seems to have been Adapted by Owlcat similarly to the Skill System in Kingmaker.

    * "The Mythic] system will let you pick from several different Mythics, including a mischievous trickster, an immortal Lich, a celestial angel, and others."
    * When Questioned devs said that they had reworked the Mythic system so that it was more powerful. Both why and how are unknown at this time.
    * Owlcat is adding the lich (big spells plus undead minions); the trickster (it’s about finding mischief and fun, but you can also turn those critical failures into successes); and the angel (you get celestial allies and can throw around bolts of divine judgment).
    * Mark Moreland Said that: "Owlcat will be exploring other sources of mythic power beyond [the] original mythic paths."
    * The Trickster can Manipulate Probability. When they miss (with a roll of a 1 on a 20-side die), they can change it to a 20. And you see the roll change before your eyes, as if your character is tweaking the dice that underlay the world and the game.
    * If you start adventuring as a Lich, some of your companions won't like it, and they'll make themselves known.


    The Mechanics:

    The Game should play very similarly to Kingmaker, and will likely be Real Time With Pause unless something major happened that convinced the Owlcats that they should change the entire underlying system for their extremely well-selling game based on some vocal detractors.

    * Owlcat plans to include a strategic component (like Kingdom building) that differs from Kingmaker, but has roots in the same system.
    * Regarding 2nd Edition Mishulin said: “Right now, we’re sticking to the first edition, probably with some additions and advancements,”


    The Characters:

    * Seelah, the Iconic Paladin, is a Companion as per the key Art revealed in the reveal campaign, and confirmed by Devs. She will be "The only Iconic in the party."
    * There is a White Haired Gnome on the Box Art. She may or may not be a companion.
    *The angel man on the revealed art is The Player Character.
    * There is What looks like a Bleachling Gnome Hellknight on the Revealed art. He is a Companion. His name has been (jokingly) revealed as "Stabby McStabface". This is likely an alias.
    * The Succubus Arueshalae is on the Revealed art. It is unknown as to what role she will play, but only Companions were on the Kingmaker Reveal art, so she is likely a Companion. In Tabletop, she was explicitly Romanceable, so she is likely a romance option.
    * There is a Mongrelman on the reveal art. This is Lann, an important NPC from the first book of Wrath.It is unknown if the Player can be a Mongrelman.
    *Irabeth Tirabade and her wife Annevia are confirmed to be in the game. It is unknown in what capacity.
    * Wrath has an Extremely large Cast of friendly NPC characters. It is likely that some of these will become Companions, and that some will get cut. We're probably also getting some Original companions.
    *Characters from Kingmaker will make an appearance. No Word on what characters, or who, or how, or why.


    Classes & Races:
    * Wrath of the Righteous is bringing back the 15 classes and seven prestige classes from Kingmaker, adding the witch and oracle.
    * "There will be new [Classes] beyond those that appeared in Kingmaker, and there’s also going to be a new race and new archetypes to play with."


    Miscellaneous stuff:
    *Alexander Mishulin, Owlcat's Creative Director, promised fewer bugs on release. He mentioned new Narrative Tools. These were revealed on Discord as being "Etudes" Instead of on/off variables in the narrative tree, Etudes apparently offer multi-set variables. This allows more freedom to make complicated choices without creating a terrifying tangle of code. Not being a Programmer, that's all I got out of the explanation.
    * "Players of the original adventure path will encounter a lot of familiar faces and encounters, but [there] also will be new characters, twists, and stories"
    *The game will be Darker in Visual Style and Tone.
    * Chris Avellone is back on board lending a hand and supporting the narrative team as he did with Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
    * Owlcat is working to make the game more User-Friendly for Players unfamiliar with the Pathfinder System.
    * a new system To deal with Branching bugs exists. It is a bot that permanently drops random decisions in the game and thus also covers extremely unusual routes that a tester would not even think about.



    __________

    Console Ports

    * We are Getting PS4, X-Box One, And Nintendo Switch Ports, according to This Financial Report.
    * Oleg the studio head announced at Big Deal Game Conference that while dates are tentative, the port is expected either late 2019, or early 2020.
    * A suspicious survey arrived in April 2019, asking about Console Ports, Companion AI, and Turn-Based Modes.
    * UI usability improvements will be available in Enhanced Edition. and the UI is being adapted for the console release.

    ______

    Important links:
    ➼ The official Website: https://wrath.owlcatgames.com/
    ➼ Twitch: https://twitch.tv/owlcatgames
    ➼ Twitter: https://twitter.com/owlcatgames
    ➼ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PathfinderCRPG
    ➼ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/owlcat_games
    ➼ YouTube: https://yt.vu/+owlcatgames
    ➼ Discord: https://discord.gg/syqGPZH

    ______

    That's all I have so far. I'll keep this thread updated as I learn more.
    Last edited by Stratagemini; Today at 06:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    I remember one time when I chatted with Kotarsis (last week?) he said that a lot of people in Owlcat's studio were currently doing lovecraft horror PnP. I don't think it's likely that the sequel is going to be something so far off pathfinder, but who knows? maybe in a year or two we will see :D

    EDIT : found the post :

    written on 27th of february 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by k0tarsis View Post
    Eh, not to brag or anything (in any case, it's Paizo's baby, not ours), but I'd wager that tabletop Pathfinder has the most varied race selection in the industry. One of the reasons Pathfinder is popular is exactly the enormous wealth of content and options it provides to players. A lot of guys in the studio run Lovecraftian horror campaigns using Pathfinder, and I know there are people who run steampunk, vampire hunter, planar travel, fantasy space opera and all sorts of "not your typical DnD" campaigns with PF. So yeah, PF is a pretty good choice if you want to play something unusual.
    reading the post again, it might meant more as ''outside the studio PnP'' rather than what they did with kingmaker while developping the game. Sorry :|

    Although I saw your own post on this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    So, I think that the next AP is Ironfang Invasion and here's why:

    1. Owlcat is a pretty small studio still, so they don't want a lot of downtime between games for financial reasons so we're probably looking at a game with a faster turnover. That means as many of the assets and as much of the engine as possible being reused.

    2. Owlcat's top brass have demonstrated a preference for APs where the Player can "build their own story." That is to say, APs that aren't particularly railroad-y, and that have an element of building something to them.

    3. Owlcat are greatly influenced by Baldur's Gate and enjoy making games with a Baldur's Gate sort of feel to them.

    So let's try and narrow down the intersection on the Venn Diagram of these three categories:

    First, we want an AP set in a temperate forested region, with maybe some first world, and given that DLC 3 is basically a giant set of assets for the Darklands, we're probably looking at that preferentially as well. That leaves the following APs listed in order of descending likelihood:
    Ironfang Invasion (would require very few new art assets)
    Second Darkness (would require less new art assets than most, but still requires some substantial additions)
    Giant Slayer (would require a couple dungeons worth of new assets but most assets are reusable)
    Strange Aeons (would also require a lot of new assets, and I think I remember hearing that the head studio devs aren't fond of Lovecraft in an AMA).

    Second, the APs where you get to build something for yourself:
    Ironfang Invasion (the Militia System and creating a new country)
    Council of Thieves (the rebellion system and building a new Westcrown)
    Skull and Shackles (Managing a new fleet and building a pirate armada)
    Hell's Rebels (The Rebellion System and building a new Duchy of Ravounel)

    Third, the APs that have a Baldur's gate feel:
    Ironfang Invasion
    Rise of the Runelords
    Carrion Crown
    Strange Aeons

    So Ironfang Invasion seems to meet all three criteria, and as an added bonus since it it seems likely that DLC 3 was created as a way to prep for the next AP Ironfang can definitely use the Darklands assets.

    I think Ironfang is the most likely the next AP we'll see.
    You made some very solid points.
    Last edited by Patriarche; 03-06-2019 at 12:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriarche View Post
    I remember one time when I chatted with Kotarsis (last week?) he said that a lot of people in Owlcat's studio were currently doing lovecraft horror PnP. I don't think it's likely that the sequel is going to be something so far off pathfinder, but who knows? maybe in a year or two we will see :D

    reading the post again, it might meant more as ''outside the studio PnP'' rather than what they did with kingmaker while developping the game. Sorry :|
    I can tell you now that some of the Studio Leads (I believe it's Creative Director Mishulin actually) absolutely hate Lovecraftian Horror. It seems very unlikely we'll be getting Strange Aeons or Carrion Crown out of Owlcat as a result.

    I've also since learned that some of my reasoning surrounding DLC 3 was wrong. Not all of it, but some. None of that is stuff I can elaborate on though since it's not public information.

  4. #4
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    I can tell you now that some of the Studio Leads (I believe it's Creative Director Mishulin actually) absolutely hate Lovecraftian Horror. It seems very unlikely we'll be getting Strange Aeons or Carrion Crown out of Owlcat as a result.
    Oh, good. I also dislike lovecraftian pseudo-horror. I'd rather have more classic gothic horror (Ravenloft-style), if they chose horror-based setting. No horror at all is even best, though. :)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Some brief observations of today's stream:

    While my prior opinion was "no more DLC after Under the Stolen Lands", Thainen and K0tarsis both said that "We're not ready to talk about DLC until after we finish all three of the DLC we promised our fans and sold in the season pass." This is a much less firm answer than the one I expected: "No, we're not planning to sell any more DLC for Kingmaker."

    They have confirmed that the next game is NOT going to be a direct sequel to Kingmaker but instead will be a different AP. They were very firm on the "Not a sequel to Kingmaker" part, and much more teasing on the "probably a different AP" part; being unwilling to officially confirm that they are in fact working on another Pathfinder Game.

    They have also confirmed that the Endless dungeon will be playable in the main campaign and also in Endless mode, but it will not be playable in the main campaign post ending. No idea how they'll deal with the time limits...
    Last edited by Stratagemini; 03-07-2019 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    According to Today's Stream:
    DLC 3 Is a "Procedurally Generated dungeon" like a Rogue-like. You can grind experience, get new items fight bosses that are "very Hard."
    There's minimal narrative content (basically just a narrative framing device). No New Companions or overarching story.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    LV 20, here we go!!!

    But i wish we could get new story/companions too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    According to Today's Stream:
    You can grind experience, get new items fight bosses that are "very Hard."
    That makes me worried.

    I seriously hope those "very hard" bosses won't end up being 100% artificial difficulty like the PoE2 Mega-Bosses cause those were one of the worst pieces of content i've ever seen released in years. Each and every one of them ended up being "You don't have this spell/item? Well, F you then"

    If "Very Hard" means having to micromanage movement, figuring out the strategy and positioning the boss to reduce damage/whatever, then it's going to be great, otherwise it's going to be a repeat of mega-bosses and everyone will end up using cheap tricks/exploits or straight up ignore them like in PoE2

  9. #9
    Senior Member The Infinity Sock's Avatar
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    Well k0tarsis said that if the 3rd dlc sells well there will make another dlc so we might get more dlcs if this is the last dlc i would like it if there can add in the mythic paths

  10. #10
    Senior Member The Infinity Sock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwolf View Post
    LV 20, here we go!!!

    But i wish we could get new story/companions too.
    Agreed and new classes and races i really want to play as a rimesoul frost undine winter witch

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