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  1. #1
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Things we Know about The Sequel to Pathfinder: Kingmaker

    Okay, so there are three publicly available projects coming down the pipe from Owlcat. This is where I'm hoping to centralize information about them.

    They are in order of ETA: Under the Stolen Lands (DLC3), Console Ports, and Pathfinder 2. Also, An Enhanced Edition is coming too.

    So let's Discuss!

    EDITED: Removed DLC3 Information since DLC 3 is already out. Added More Info about Pathfinder 2.

    ________________________

    Console Ports

    * Looking at Financial documents from THC Nordic (which is Deep Silver's parent company and as a result is Kingmaker's publisher) I learned late last year that Console Ports were coming for PS4 and X-Box One. At the Big Deal Game Conference, Oleg the studio head announced that while dates are tentative, the port is expected either late 2019, or early 2020.
    * Devs have been working on the Port since either November or December. When their Dev Kits arrived. It seems extremely unlikely that work on the port will influence the quality of patches and other such fixes.
    * A suspicious survey arrived in April asking about Console Ports, Companion AI, and Turn-Based Modes.
    * UI usability improvements will be available in Enhanced Edition. and the UI is being adapted for the console release.

    ________________________

    Pathfinder 2

    * The sequel hasn't officially been announced yet but the anniversary Twitch Stream stated that an announcement was coming this year.
    * Tabletop Tuesdays have resumed at Owlcat Studios on a new AP. Everyone is playing the same AP. Tabletop Tuesdays were originally part of Owlcat Studios' work on Kingmaker as a way to develop new content for the game organically and to familiarize the devs with the characters and feel of the game. Resuming them with a new AP seems like a major indicator that Pathfinder 2 is in the works.
    * Owlcat hit certain milestones that triggered a Console Port by THC Nordic, this indicates that Kingmaker was a financial success and a new game is likely.
    * Oleg (the studio head) referenced thinking about their new project at Big Deal in a way that implied that there was in fact a new project.
    * K0tarsis continually answers questions on stream about whether there will be a new game with "I can tell you that Owlcat is doing well, and when a Game company is doing well, they are making new games."

    So what do we know about PF2?

    * Paizo has spoken out to say that Owlcat (and any other developers) will not be forced to upgrade to Pathfinder 2nd edition rules and can keep putting out games using 1st edition rules if they wish. Given the massive cost in iteration of a new engine and the fact that the 2E rules don't even exist in a final form yet, the next game will likely be based off the same engine and rules as Kingmaker.
    * What AP Owlcat is playing has not been disclosed, but since tabletop Tuesdays started back up in January, it is likely a fully published AP that was either finished or started before that date (i.e. Not Tyrant's grasp and probably not Return of the Runelords).
    * Given the Owlcat thought process about the need for a "Hook" to differentiate from games coasting in on nostalgia appeal (the Kingdom Building was Kingmaker's), it is likely an AP with an overarching system in a similar vein to Kingmaker.
    * Given Oleg's discussion of Kickstarter at Big Deal, it is likely that there will be another Kickstarter. News about this will probably not break until after the forum's are reformatted and DLC3 is released.
    * Given the issues that Owlcat had with physical Kickstarter rewards, it seems likely that Physical rewards for this next Kickstarter will be minimal.
    * It took half a year to go from absolute nothing to a vertical slice in Kingmaker's dev cycle. And another half a year to go from there to Kickstarter readiness. And then around half a year to get from there to Alpha 1. and 10 months in alpha to get to Beta. and 2 months to go from Beta to Full game. It seems likely, given that timeline, that we will get a Kickstarter this year.

    That's all I have so far. I'll keep this thread updated as I learn more.
    Last edited by Stratagemini; 09-25-2019 at 11:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    I remember one time when I chatted with Kotarsis (last week?) he said that a lot of people in Owlcat's studio were currently doing lovecraft horror PnP. I don't think it's likely that the sequel is going to be something so far off pathfinder, but who knows? maybe in a year or two we will see :D

    EDIT : found the post :

    written on 27th of february 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by k0tarsis View Post
    Eh, not to brag or anything (in any case, it's Paizo's baby, not ours), but I'd wager that tabletop Pathfinder has the most varied race selection in the industry. One of the reasons Pathfinder is popular is exactly the enormous wealth of content and options it provides to players. A lot of guys in the studio run Lovecraftian horror campaigns using Pathfinder, and I know there are people who run steampunk, vampire hunter, planar travel, fantasy space opera and all sorts of "not your typical DnD" campaigns with PF. So yeah, PF is a pretty good choice if you want to play something unusual.
    reading the post again, it might meant more as ''outside the studio PnP'' rather than what they did with kingmaker while developping the game. Sorry :|

    Although I saw your own post on this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    So, I think that the next AP is Ironfang Invasion and here's why:

    1. Owlcat is a pretty small studio still, so they don't want a lot of downtime between games for financial reasons so we're probably looking at a game with a faster turnover. That means as many of the assets and as much of the engine as possible being reused.

    2. Owlcat's top brass have demonstrated a preference for APs where the Player can "build their own story." That is to say, APs that aren't particularly railroad-y, and that have an element of building something to them.

    3. Owlcat are greatly influenced by Baldur's Gate and enjoy making games with a Baldur's Gate sort of feel to them.

    So let's try and narrow down the intersection on the Venn Diagram of these three categories:

    First, we want an AP set in a temperate forested region, with maybe some first world, and given that DLC 3 is basically a giant set of assets for the Darklands, we're probably looking at that preferentially as well. That leaves the following APs listed in order of descending likelihood:
    Ironfang Invasion (would require very few new art assets)
    Second Darkness (would require less new art assets than most, but still requires some substantial additions)
    Giant Slayer (would require a couple dungeons worth of new assets but most assets are reusable)
    Strange Aeons (would also require a lot of new assets, and I think I remember hearing that the head studio devs aren't fond of Lovecraft in an AMA).

    Second, the APs where you get to build something for yourself:
    Ironfang Invasion (the Militia System and creating a new country)
    Council of Thieves (the rebellion system and building a new Westcrown)
    Skull and Shackles (Managing a new fleet and building a pirate armada)
    Hell's Rebels (The Rebellion System and building a new Duchy of Ravounel)

    Third, the APs that have a Baldur's gate feel:
    Ironfang Invasion
    Rise of the Runelords
    Carrion Crown
    Strange Aeons

    So Ironfang Invasion seems to meet all three criteria, and as an added bonus since it it seems likely that DLC 3 was created as a way to prep for the next AP Ironfang can definitely use the Darklands assets.

    I think Ironfang is the most likely the next AP we'll see.
    You made some very solid points.
    Last edited by Patriarche; 03-06-2019 at 12:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriarche View Post
    I remember one time when I chatted with Kotarsis (last week?) he said that a lot of people in Owlcat's studio were currently doing lovecraft horror PnP. I don't think it's likely that the sequel is going to be something so far off pathfinder, but who knows? maybe in a year or two we will see :D

    reading the post again, it might meant more as ''outside the studio PnP'' rather than what they did with kingmaker while developping the game. Sorry :|
    I can tell you now that some of the Studio Leads (I believe it's Creative Director Mishulin actually) absolutely hate Lovecraftian Horror. It seems very unlikely we'll be getting Strange Aeons or Carrion Crown out of Owlcat as a result.

    I've also since learned that some of my reasoning surrounding DLC 3 was wrong. Not all of it, but some. None of that is stuff I can elaborate on though since it's not public information.

  4. #4
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    I can tell you now that some of the Studio Leads (I believe it's Creative Director Mishulin actually) absolutely hate Lovecraftian Horror. It seems very unlikely we'll be getting Strange Aeons or Carrion Crown out of Owlcat as a result.
    Oh, good. I also dislike lovecraftian pseudo-horror. I'd rather have more classic gothic horror (Ravenloft-style), if they chose horror-based setting. No horror at all is even best, though. :)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    Some brief observations of today's stream:

    While my prior opinion was "no more DLC after Under the Stolen Lands", Thainen and K0tarsis both said that "We're not ready to talk about DLC until after we finish all three of the DLC we promised our fans and sold in the season pass." This is a much less firm answer than the one I expected: "No, we're not planning to sell any more DLC for Kingmaker."

    They have confirmed that the next game is NOT going to be a direct sequel to Kingmaker but instead will be a different AP. They were very firm on the "Not a sequel to Kingmaker" part, and much more teasing on the "probably a different AP" part; being unwilling to officially confirm that they are in fact working on another Pathfinder Game.

    They have also confirmed that the Endless dungeon will be playable in the main campaign and also in Endless mode, but it will not be playable in the main campaign post ending. No idea how they'll deal with the time limits...
    Last edited by Stratagemini; 03-07-2019 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stratagemini's Avatar
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    According to Today's Stream:
    DLC 3 Is a "Procedurally Generated dungeon" like a Rogue-like. You can grind experience, get new items fight bosses that are "very Hard."
    There's minimal narrative content (basically just a narrative framing device). No New Companions or overarching story.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    LV 20, here we go!!!

    But i wish we could get new story/companions too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratagemini View Post
    According to Today's Stream:
    You can grind experience, get new items fight bosses that are "very Hard."
    That makes me worried.

    I seriously hope those "very hard" bosses won't end up being 100% artificial difficulty like the PoE2 Mega-Bosses cause those were one of the worst pieces of content i've ever seen released in years. Each and every one of them ended up being "You don't have this spell/item? Well, F you then"

    If "Very Hard" means having to micromanage movement, figuring out the strategy and positioning the boss to reduce damage/whatever, then it's going to be great, otherwise it's going to be a repeat of mega-bosses and everyone will end up using cheap tricks/exploits or straight up ignore them like in PoE2

  9. #9
    Senior Member The Infinity Sock's Avatar
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    Well k0tarsis said that if the 3rd dlc sells well there will make another dlc so we might get more dlcs if this is the last dlc i would like it if there can add in the mythic paths

  10. #10
    Senior Member The Infinity Sock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwolf View Post
    LV 20, here we go!!!

    But i wish we could get new story/companions too.
    Agreed and new classes and races i really want to play as a rimesoul frost undine winter witch

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