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  1. #1
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    Perception checks

    I even finished the main game and im still not sure, so i hope someone can help me here.

    Perception checks to find hidden rooms or chests are repeated everytime you pass around the area (like disabling traps) or you have to level up to get a new test (like picking locks).

    Im replaying DLC2 with custom characters and even though i know where the iron golem is, and im passing by with perception over +20 (more than i had the 1st time), they cant find that hidden room...

  2. #2
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    You get a reroll ever level. There is the bag of tricks mod if you're sick of failing the roll :)

  3. #3
    I made a mercernary named Spotty McOwl:

    Half Elf Rogue with 14 WIS, Skill Focus Perception, Alertness, Persuasive, Canny Observer, and Eyes of the Eagle (not sure if you can find those in the DLC2).
    [You could probably make an Inquisitor as well, but the Canny Observer Rogue Talent and Trapfinding Rogue class features seem to be the best unique bonuses]

    I bring her along whenever I think I've missed something (especially useful in the main game when doing map exploration in Book4-6)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    Thanks for the confirmation. I feared that. Ill checkout that mod (nice merc too). Its worst than lockpick, as most times you dont even know you failed...

  5. #5
    Agreed. The pre-made characters are pretty bad at skills. I take Skill Focus multiple times in the game. Usually for Perception , Disable Device, and Persuasion (main character only for Persuasion). Too many skill checks are either too annoyingly hard are too important (and you get one chance at it).

    I had Amiri take Skill Focus Athletics to get past the occasional annoying Athletics check...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pathfinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwolf View Post
    Thanks for the confirmation. I feared that. Ill checkout that mod (nice merc too). Its worst than lockpick, as most times you dont even know you failed...

    But is it not kind of part of the fun?
    I mean you do know that if you first play as let's say paladin you most likely miss most hidden things but you do get some "only for Paladin" items. Then if you make and special bard or rogue you get to see another side of the game.
    "Road to the man's heart go through the chest"

  7. #7
    Community Manager k0tarsis's Avatar
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    You get a reroll ever level.
    That's also how it works in PnP. I think it makes a lot of sense - allowing to reroll such checks each time you re-enter the area would basically encourage players to repeatedly leave and enter and leave again. That would severely hamper the flow of the game, and since a lot of RPG players are completionists, they'd feel compelled to do this tedious task to get to every bit of content they can.
    Also, making it so every character and every build can pass all or most of the Perception checks in the game would mean it's meaningless to even have Perception as a skill in the system. If you want to have meaningful choice, you need to have sacrifices: getting that sweet +4 Dex bonus means you won't have such a high Perception, etc.

  8. #8
    Senior Member No One of Consequence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0tarsis View Post
    That's also how it works in PnP.
    Er... I would like you to quote the rules here. I couldn't find it myself. My Core rulebook says, in the skill section for Perception :

    "Try again : Yes. You can try to sense something you missed the first time, so long as the stimulus is still present."

    You can also read it here : https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception

    I can understand the ruling in the video game, although I do not really agree with it. It is not a big deal to me (even though it has made me stop two playthroughs because there are areas I cannot spot even though I go there every level with a highly perceptive MC. Still, it is just a game).
    That said, please don't say this is how it works in pnp when it is not. ;)

    If you find me a rule saying it is so, then I'll apologize, obviously.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    I agree 100% that find hidden things should be a challenge and require meaningful choices/sacrifices in classes, feats, items, etc.
    But i also think that pathfinder core rules allow unrestricted retry in perception/disable device checks, and would rather see it working that way in the game too.
    However i just wanted to know for sure how it works here. The devs had their reasons and the game is inspired on pathfinder rather than a tabletop simulation, so things will be different here and there.

  10. #10
    Pen and paper also allows take 10 and take 20, which are not present in the game. In P+P, I generally always take 10 on skills whenever possible. And you can take 20 on a disable device to open a lock (but not to disarm trap).

    The game did a decent job of modelling the skill system; I would like for it to have people choose to take 10 or roll for skills. (if they allowed take 20 on some things, it might break something - then again, they might allow it with consequences (time)).

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