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  1. #1

    Organized Feedback for the Devs

    Hi Owlcat,

    Pushing 70 hours (where did the time go?). I am loving this game, its one of my favorite games in a long time. You can really feel all the love that went into it. I've never played Pathfinder but I love RPGs and other tabletop games.

    I have organized some feedback as I play. Some things to think about in future patches or for future development:

    Basic Stuff:
    - Most of looting is combing through junk to see what is mastercrafted. Adding some kind of icon to a mastercrafted item would save a lot of tedium. Something like a little diamond icon in the corner would go a long way.

    - There is about a half second delay before the tooltip opens up when you mouse over an item - this pause slows down reviewing loot - It would be much nicer if it was instant. (This is mainly when combing through loot looking for mastercrafted items, so it would not be as much of an issue if they had an identifying icon).

    - When using the circular icons to exit an area, I don't know if I'm entering a new area or exiting the area. You have to click the map and mouseover to see. It would be nice if there was a mouseover tooltip on the main screen.

    - There is a lot of story terms that you can learn more about during the dialogue, but then they disappear. It would be nice if there was a "Story Terms" section of the encyclopedia where I can read more about the people and places in the story.

    - Identifying enemies/monsters is a big part of this kind of game, but it's really hard to see (the note in the combat log). I wish there was an easier way to identify the enemies you are attacking to form a better battle plan.It would be nice if there was a way to pre-identify your enemy. It would also be nice if the bestiary updated with details of the enemy/monster stats.

    - You might make a dexterous fighter or a robed mage which benefits from no armor, but then you miss out on all the fun of equipping new armors. It would be nice if there were basic clothing options from the start - basic clothing and robes you could buy to customize these kind of chars.

    - Mages generally equip ranged weapons but this does not seem very thematic. It would be nice if there were more weapon options that benefit mages who would never want to physically attack (staves come to mind). The only thing I've seen so far is a dagger that grants a +3 dodge bonus. It would be nice if there was more of these kinds of options for mages.

    - It would be nice if there were options to show or hide helmets, cloaks and backpacks to customize your look more.

    - You have to toggle "Show Location Names" on the world map to see old places featuring new events. If there is a new event in an area, that area should be highlighted even without showing location names.

    - Its hard to understand what areas are in your kingdom. It would be nice if the world map showed clearly defined kingdom borders.

    - Your 'shared stash' of items is very useful, but must be sorted manually. It would be nice if it had the same sorting options as your inventory.

    - Dealing with certain negative status effects is a nightmare, especially those which must be removed one at a time with restoration. This can lead to having to spend a great amount of time moving in and out of areas and resting over and over so you can recharge restoration in order to remove effects one point at a time. The best alternative is to change the difficulty so you can remove effects by resting, but this feels like 'cheating'. Personally I think the Clerics in town should offer to clear all negatives effects for a reasonable fee, rather than the tedium of removing them manually.

    Major Stuff

    WALK SPEED
    One of the biggest complaints about this game is the slow walk speed, exacerbated by the stacking penalties. I've read a lot of complaints about this and it's hard to deny this is very tedious. A lot of developers try to emphasize walking around for realism but the fact is that walking from place to place is just not fun and never makes an enjoyable game. Kingmaker is the kind of game where you have to walk away from a tough area and come back later - that's just not fun when it takes so long to leave and come back.The slow combat speed is perfect but outside of combat this game could really benefit from a complete re-haul of the walking system, and/or the addition of a fast forward button outside of combat.

    COMPANIONS
    The main core of this game is the chars, the 6 people you choose to adventure with. Naturally you are going to want to go with the named companions you meet on your journey in order to get the most out of the story. Unfortunately some of the biggest core problems with this game surround the companions.

    There is a lot of talk about how people don't like the companion personalities - I completely disagree. I think the companions are unique and interesting. I don't love every one but different people are going to like different things. For example I don't love Amiri, but a strong female player might appreciate a strong female character. A female barbarian is also unique compared to the male ones you see in every other game. So I appreciate her character in the game. I was pleasantly surprised with the chars given all the negative feedback I had heard online. I feel like the char bashing is pretty ignorant, this game has a lot of interesting stories and lore if you delve into it - it seems like people just took the chars at face value and complained without looking any deeper.

    More the problem I have with the characters are their classes and their stats. Kingmaker is a very difficult game, and the base stats of many of the companions are quite poor. There is also problems with compatibility; making a 2H specialist locked me out of Amiri and Jaethal; they just don't fit well in my party now. These problems are fine on easy difficulties but if you want a challenge you are going to have to stick with only a few companions which are the most optimized.

    Here is one example; Harrim is a cleric with channel positive energy which is essential for healing, but his charisma is only 10. This makes him terribly un-optimized even when trying to fix him with gear. Another thing is his portrait shows him in heavy armor with a flail - neither of which he can equip without spending key feats.

    Bottom line, you should be able to have some degree of customization for your companions, most especially in the harder difficulty. It would be awesome if you got to level them when you met them instead of being stuck with their base stats. For example I found Valerie very boring, but I used a mod to re-spec her into an Aldori Defender, and shes like my favorite char now.

    Lastly, if you do want to hire a mercenary, they suffer a massive handicap of only 20 Ability Score. Personally I feel this should be 25 so you can make a decent character if you need to. If nothing else, you could ditch the companions in harder difficulties this way. Its also important if you want to add something like a Paladin, Monk or Druid to your party without a handicap.

    RESPEC
    With a game as complex as this, you need a respec option, especially in easier difficulties, when you are trying to figure the game out. Without respec you might pick something that doesn't work the way you expected and then you are in absolute misery for the rest of the game, causing you to not want to keep playing. If people get frustrated and quit, then they wont recommend the game, and they wont buy any DLC or sequels.

    Personally- I'm playing the game with respec and movement mods, and have been really enjoying it. I read a lot of reviews of people who got stuck on some of these things and let their frustration snowball. I think this game has a lot of brilliance so I hate to see it lose potential because of these things. Its probably not going to be an option to add mods to a console version, so hopefully some of these speed bumps are worked out before then.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by WoollyMammoth; 04-15-2019 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    I agree that lack of respec and the slow movement out of combat are things that need improvement.

    But i add the need for a crafting system too.

    I hope the dev add item creation feats in the future. I want to build my own stuff, like on tabletop or neverwinter nights.

  3. #3
    Dear Owlcat team,

    I'm a big fan of the Pathfinder universe and think your implementation of the Kingmaker campaign is really great. The only thing that really drives me crazy are the enormous loading times (which is why it took me twice as long to finish the game) and the bugs... I just upgraded all stats to level 10 and wanted to get the Achievement for all masterpieces as well, only to find out that I can't get all of them, because the artisan 'Irene' never showed up (I looked for her in all the completed and open quests, in the capital itself, but she's not where she should be). That's really frustrating after almost 400 hours of playing. Especially since I hoped to never have to go through this ordeal again, to get all stats on level 10, which is unfortunately a prerequisite for the masterpieces of the artisans.

    I hope the bugs are gone and the loading times improved on my next game run, then this would be a great game that will easily outshine Baldur's Gate. I hope you'll bring out more games in the Pathfinder universe.

  4. #4
    @sholan
    I downloaded the game on a SSD and the loading times are nothing. Loading times are standard, not much the devs can do about that. The long pre-load on startup makes it seem like they really tried to do their best to reduce them. Haven't noticed any bugs yet myself.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    @WoollyMammoth
    While isnīt the main issue to me, in an HD i assure you this game loading time is above average if compared with contemporaries that i also own, such as Battletech or Frostpunk, and could use more optimization.

    Not saying the devs arenīt doing their best. I believe they are. But there is room for improvement.

  6. #6
    Senior Member purpleblob's Avatar
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    I play Kingmaker without SSD and loading time isn't that long since patch 1.2.

  7. #7
    There is always room for improvement with everything. I'm not as concerned with broad complex changes (like optimizing loading) as I am with 'simple' fixes like those I mention above.

    This game has really wowed me but there are a few minor things that I feel are holding it back.

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Infinity Sock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoollyMammoth View Post
    There is always room for improvement with everything. I'm not as concerned with broad complex changes (like optimizing loading) as I am with 'simple' fixes like those I mention above.

    This game has really wowed me but there are a few minor things that I feel are holding it back.
    I am in the same boat as you i really don't want big changes just little ones if i could change three things in this game the first one is to make familiars useful in combat like casting spells the second one is to be able to name our familiars and animal companions it just looks odd that only ekundayo can name his pet but we can't the last one is to be able to pick a deity for our none divine characters it just looks odd that all the other none divine characters can have a deity but our main characters can't

  9. #9
    Senior Member Patriarche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoollyMammoth View Post
    - There is a lot of story terms that you can learn more about during the dialogue, but then they disappear. It would be nice if there was a "Story Terms" section of the encyclopedia where I can read more about the people and places in the story.

    - Identifying enemies/monsters is a big part of this kind of game, but it's really hard to see (the note in the combat log). I wish there was an easier way to identify the enemies you are attacking to form a better battle plan.It would be nice if there was a way to pre-identify your enemy. It would also be nice if the bestiary updated with details of the enemy/monster stats.


    RESPEC
    With a game as complex as this, you need a respec option, especially in easier difficulties, when you are trying to figure the game out. Without respec you might pick something that doesn't work the way you expected and then you are in absolute misery for the rest of the game, causing you to not want to keep playing. If people get frustrated and quit, then they wont recommend the game, and they wont buy any DLC or sequels.
    Encyclopedia updates : I completely agree that this would be way more practical. In combat I never read the lore check on monsters to know what are their strenghts and weaknesses. However, I would regurlaly check out my bestiary if I had one. Same storywise, I like to read through the journal (which is very well done btw), but it would be more interesting if terms that are explained on dialogue (the one that when you hover over they explain the term) would be stored in an encyclopedia. For those who don't know much about Golarion, it would be nice.

    Respec : Very important. The classes would be locked out however, example if you're a fighter lvl 6 you may choose another fighter archetype but you couldn't go magician or rogue, as that would be gamebreaking. Being able to try the different archetype however would be interesting, since there are like over 30+ choices with all archetypes, being able to try out all the archetype in a single playthrough would minimize the required playthrough to try everything to like 12-15? which is still a lot, I know that I have currently 4 playthrough running, however I don't think I'll do 10 playthroughs

  10. #10
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    You've got some pretty solid suggestions WoollyMammoth, but there are a few things where the devs are actually a bit ahead of you.

    If you go into Settings you can alter the Tooltip Delay and Equipment comparison delay so those will pop up faster.

    You actually can pre-identify enemies and see their info without scrolling through the combat log. In the bottom left corner there should be a magnifying glass symbol, or you can press "y" to trigger identification. Then you can move your cursor over an enemy to start seeing their stats (though this does require that your party can beat certain Lore checks, like Nature or Religion). It would be nice to see some of that info without entering that mode, but it helps.

    While there are no cosmetic armors, later on in the game you'll start finding robes and similar clothing that occupies the armor slot but doesn't interfere with arcane spells or characters like Monks who don't wear armor. It takes a while to start finding really useful versions of those, but they are there.

    Similarly, mages can eventually get weapons that are better for them. Right now I have Octavia with a quarterstaff that lets her cast a few extra fire spells each day. Again, it takes a while to start really finding them, but once you get further in game and get the right Artisans you'll have more gear like that.

    I definitely agree with you on a few quality-of-life adjustments - easier ways to see when you move across region borders, being able to toggle helmets and capes (especially on my Inquisitor - love the base hat and cloak but would love to have options), and sorting the stash would all be great. Though on the subject of the stash, I have found it useful to go into the categories when looking for specific stuff like relic shards or weapons I need to pull out, in case anyone wants an easier way to use that.

    Having a way to toggle a fast-walk out of combat (like what Pillars of Eternity 2 has) and an option for respec would be huge to help get through some of the tedious stuff and make build creation easier. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on some of the companion stuff though. Some companions kinda have to be part of specific classes and builds to fit their characters, and we already have tons of room to customize their equipment and feats. Harrim would be a better cleric if he had higher Charisma, but I like the distinction between him and Tristian and how it makes Harrim more focused on delivering touch spells and melee combat. Similarly, while I understand the disappointment of not having Amiri and Jaethal be redundant with your 2H character, it's just inevitable that some characters are going to fill similar roles in the party. Designing characters to let them fill any role would make it a lot harder to write for them, since most of these characters have their personalities, classes, and attributes really deeply connected. I like seeing how the writing and character arcs for these characters play out way too much to want their stories to be restricted just so we can have more freedom with their builds.

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